Rapha, nice but a bit pricey?

Also, I'm not Customer Services.

No, but you are something of an oracle.

Do not praise false idols.

What would you want to wear underneath it?

I wore mine for about 250k of absolutely miserable, filthy riding this weekend and it's now my go-to mild winter/very wet and shitty jacket. It's nice and warm (I've only seen 5deg low so far) and waterproof to a point, but never gets sodden.

I wouldn't wear more than a LS merino baselayer underneath if it was really cold.

Ideally a long sleeve jersey when it gets kin' cold

Generally it has been but yesterday was cold and wet. It was about 3 degrees out in Essex yesterday morning and proper wet. Not nice, I could have done with more than the PTJ and LS base layer I was wearing.

A long sleeve jersey under a Softshell?!

You'll melt.

And cry.

If you get that cold buy a Hardshell.

And going back to your original question: you won't fit more than a LS baselayer under the PTSoftshell

Just realised - are we talking classic Softshell or PT?

I ride evenings every week, it gets very cold. The PT Softshell would be more versatile with a jersey under it that a hardshell, I owned one of those and didn't wear it much as I would rather go with layers.

Hardshell is basically a portable oven.

No way is it cold enough in the UK for a Jersey and softshell.

I commute in a base layer and my hardshell if it's cold, but more so because it's such a short distance to ride to work i don't really get chance to warm up.

I've never used it on a club run / training ride

Surely that would depend on what sort of riding you were doing? A 3 to 4 hour zone 2 ride in sub zero would for me. The Pro Team Softshell is nothing like as thick as a classic softshell.

I used a ls winter baselayer and a hardshell yesterday. Was comfortable. Although the temp up here in Aberdeenshire was -2 to 0 for most of the ride.

Most of my griping was about my freezing cold feet, which turned out to be purple when I got home.

My thoughts exactly

Yet due to fit and material, way warmer

Mate - my feet are getting fucked in the cold. I dunno what temp it was in Essex and Kent on sat and sun respectively but I was toasty up top with Softshell and short sleeved pro team mesh baselayer, down below in winter tights with pad but Rapha PT Overshoes are shite. Look brilliant though. Gonna tape up the vents and tinfoil the toe box before next ride. Stupid shit foot circulation.

My ridemate opted for crisp packets yesterday. Meant to be much better than tin foil as they don't fall apart. Plus, you get to eat the crisps first (or after the ride, if you like them warm and crushed).

(or after the ride, if you like warm, moist mashed potato)

Sounds like a plan, but crisp packets would have to be washed first, ain't nobody got time for walkers in their S-Works....

Winter boots, game changer

Says the man who goes out training in the middle of the day.

Come out on a dad o'clock ride in February for an experience of the conditions a lot of us have to ride in.

Even the shimano goretex ones which don't seem that 'winter' have kept me warm and dry through two winters in all weathers.

I go for layering with the feet. Normal pro team socks, shoes, over socks then overshoes / deep winter overshoes. Keeps my feet toasty. Everyone is different mind.

Haters gonna hate andy. I need my beauty sleep - you think I just happen to be this beautiful? Years of sleeping has made me this way.

Besides, EB has started getting gooey over other people's babies, i'm banking all the sleep I can for the next couple of years....

Yeah - been looking at sidi hydro or spesh defroster...

Any recommendations?

I've got Defrosters. They're very good, not particularly breathable so your feet get a bit sweaty but I did 50 miles on Sunday with summer socks on and was toasty warm. They look the most waterproof of the winter boots I've looked at.

Took a while to get used to but as comfy as my other Spesh shoes after a couple of weeks.