Rapha, nice but a bit pricey?

I'd suspect you might overheat if its tempo - but maybe that's me - if you're worried about being too cold have you got a pack-able wind jacket you could wear over the top for stopping ride, or stick in a pocket if tempo

@604cefiro @branwen I haven't got an outer layer, but may just wear a jersey underneath which can be pocketed if necessary. If it was just me I reckon I'd be fine, but I think there might be a bit of hanging about at the top of climbs and even the possibility of a cafe stop.

The LS base I have is a super warm Helly Hansen one, so I reckon I'll be alright.

I just wish those cunts at bikeinn had delivered by winter bibs when they said they were going to, rather than a week late (and counting...)

Are we expecting a Rapha sale christmas eve or sometime before? In need of lightweight jersey before Jan.

There usually a sale but it moves around a bit.

Wore pro team jacket/Jersey thing today, for the first time since buying a gabba last year. Won't be doing that again. Watch this space for a large blue ptj for sale.

There's a sale at the moment on lightweight and super lightweight jerseys

How come?

I went out in my PT jacket for 70 miles today. Would have been perfect had we not had to spend the first 30 miles at <10 mph because the roads were ice rinks.

Once we got moving it was perfect (with LS base and a jersey).

Because Gabba Gabba Doo.

Educated guess that.

Ha. I have a Gabba as well - much prefer the PTJ in weather like today's. #Suchcoziness

TBF, it's extremely warm for a December.

I've bought all this spanking new winter gear, I'm gonna wear it!

Because @dan is a bear

I find them useless - cold when I'm cold at the start of the ride and the collar doesn't fit well or protect your neck from the wind, arms are too baggy. They aren't very breathable when working hard, no vents etc. I end up soaking wet with sweat and freezing cold every time - which is why I bought the Gabba in the first place.

I know it's warm for December, but I've also been wearing one of these recently (which is actually better insulated and warmer) without having the same problems:

Courses for horses

true

Interesting. I had only used mine for chain gang training in slightly warmer weather before, and found it good. Yesterday was my first go with a base layer and I found it great at 'club pace' and on a (Strava) Cat 3, 15 min climb. I agree that it'd benefit from some vents, but apart from getting a bit cold when we were going at walking pace yesterday, it was ideal. Also find it a lot more breathable than my gabba, and not quite as 'cycling sex gimp', which makes me feel like a bit of a pratt on our very 'social' Sunday club runs.
In the wet I'll reach for the gabba, but for frosty mornings I reckon the PT Jacket is exactly what I'm looking for.

I probably sweat more than the average cyclist, which is why I get on with the wetsuit 'warm and wet' Gabba, instead of the PTJ. It just irritates me that it's billed as a 'jacket for fast winter training' when it's actually pretty rubbish for anything tempo or above (it's probably fine for chugging along in z1/z2). The espresso jacket really is excellent though - warmer than the ptj and yet also cooler because of the vents.
As Dov says - horses for courses.

Ha ha. I run hot, but don't get that sweaty so maybe that's why I get on with it (so far).

More importantly, Rapha jackets seem to be a bit more flattering. Castelli makes me feel a bit lardy.

It's almost as if the Rapha designers know that most of the PT stuff will be worn by MAMILs.

I sold my PTJ to fund a race cape.

It was awesome for constant effort rides. But I couldnt Climb in it. Mainly I just wanted a race cape though. I find With brevet jersey underneath it does the same job. Except its packable.

Was tempted to replace it With a Pro team softshell. As I do need a good barrier jacket. But Rapha went all non-viz for Winter, and up here that simply doesnt work.

I prefer the cut of Castelli on top - and I find it more comfortable. The cut of the PTJ (it is the earlier version) is weird - I have pretty big arms and shoulders for a cyclist (sprinter), and yet it's still really baggy around there, and loose around the neck. Which is weird, because the more up to date PT stuff fits me reasonably well. It's not for me obviously.

Yeah, the arms are weirdly baggy aren't they? And I'm not a climber physique by any stretch.

I'm on an earlier version as well, maybe it's something they looked at.

I've lost a bit of upper body bulk. Mainly around the neck and shoulders I Guess. As thats where I was most over-sized. Castelli stuff now fits. Literally went from unusable to Nice snug fit after dropping a kg or 2. I think its over the shoulders/upper arms. Thats where castelli stuff gets a bit stindgy With material.

Señor_Bear, can you tell me anything about how the new Pro Team Softshell performs against the first version? I am hoping the material has more give to allow for better layering.

I've never used either. Sorry.