ISIS / IS / ISIL / The Islamic State

I think the point is that ABB is being called the Caliph and replacing one of those is harder to do than finding a new guy to chop off peoples heads.

I don't consider myself rightwing in the slightest but...

I was pretty disappointed with the head of the UK Muslim Council yesterday.

Sima Kotecha went to Slough to gauge Muslim response to the Charlie Hebdo murders, and reported that while 75% were outraged, 25% were not. The voice they got to represent the 25% was a shopowner who was perfectly at ease saying, "While murder's not right, they insulted the prophet and I don't think anyone is mourning their deaths", talking like he was the voice of reason.

Then the head of the Muslim Council comes on and says he's fed up that all Muslims are constantly asked to apologise for the actions of a tiny fundamentalist minority that doesn't represent the views of anyone further than their tiny cell.

Now I'm sorry but when a Muslim reporter from a relatively liberal press agency reports that level of support for terrorism, simply denying it isn't going to cut it, and you're doing your liberal non-terrorist members no favours.

I think the idea of laïcité doesn't exist in the same way here that it does in France. What Charlie Hebdo was largely trying to do was to defend that idea, albeit in a pretty close to the bone kinda way. Personally I sympathise with the French, although I dont 100pc agree with them. But in this country we don't really feel comfortable with the freedom to offend, as countless Daily Mail-inspired complaints to the BBC will attest.

As for Muslims having to denounce those who commit violence in Islam's name, I quite like this exchange:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01/10/think-muslims-should-apologise-for-charlie-hebdo-massacre-listen-to-this_n_6448474.html?1420911416

Also, a quarter of a vox pop could be all of two or three people. It's anecdotal. Nothing like a proper statistic.

a quarter of a vox pop could be all of two or three people. It's anecdotal. Nothing like a proper statistic.

If it was Fox or CNN or the Daily Mail, I'd agree, but as far as I'm aware Sima Kotecha and the BBC don't have an axe to grind.

The link I posted is to the 4 minute segment of her findings. It's quite interesting IMO.

I don't want to get involved. nvmd.

It'd probably be easy enough to find over 25% of non Muslim Brits who say that although killing is wrong they are not mourning the deaths of people labeled as terrorists in the middle east and you could probably find a number who are perfectly at ease saying that say they are glad those people and their families are blown up from the sky. Lots of people are dicks.

It's still not a statistic unless there's a decent sample size and a proper survey methodology, regardless how well intentioned the anecdote-gathering. Plus what snottyotter said.

BBC has an axe like every other news provider. Sometimes it's anti NHS, sometimes it's pro-gay marriage, sometimes it's anti-scottish independence, almost always it is pro monarchy and pro 'our boys'. To say it doesn't have an axe to grind when a debate like this is occurring is questionable.

My point was about the head of the Muslim council rather than Muslims, let alone whether other Brits were bigger dicks than Muslim Brits (really not sure how it got there).

In representing British Muslims, saying that support for foreign Islamic fundamentalism is not something present in British Muslim communities seems disingenuous and lets down your moderate members by not acknowledging that the problem exists before emphasising the difference.

Sorry, not going to listen to a whole 3 hour episode of Today just to find the one segment you've said you actually meant, rather than the thing you linked to.

FWIW, I think the MCB did a good job of setting the tone - and that they did what a lot of right-wingers have been calling on the Muslim community to do for a long time, which is tackle extremist reactions within their midst. Hence stuff like this -
http://www.mcb.org.uk/defend-beloved-prophet-let-us-exemplify-true-ideals-say-imams/

And I think that demanding the MCB apologise on behalf of all Muslims for something all Muslims didn't do is stupid scapegoating that'll only inflame the situation.

WTF? Whatever. You go on pummelling those strawmen. I'm not going to stop you. The Today programme comments came out first then later it seems came the statement you've linked to. Perhaps the MCB reconsidered its position. That's great. Glad they agreed with me, even if you didn't.

Have all these cunts been blown up yet?

It would have been easier to discuss what the MCB had said that you disliked if you had provided a link to it, instead of to something else. I have better things to do than listen to a three hour news programme for a five minute segment

An interesting story by Christoph Reuter in Spiegel Online detailing the planning that went into the creation of Islamic State by Haji Bakr, a former officer in Saddam Hussein's intelligence service.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/islamic-state-files-show-structure-of-islamist-terror-group-a-1029274.html#js-article-comments-box-pager

That's brilliant! It took me a minute to get it...

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/jihadi-johns-plans-for-christmas-single-ruined-20151113103850

These articles may be reposts, both good though:

http://warontherocks.com/2014/11/war-interrupted-part-i-the-roots-of-the-jihadist-resurgence-in-iraq/

http://warontherocks.com/2014/11/war-interrupted-part-ii-from-prisoners-to-rulers/

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Power of Nightmares by Adam Curtis - Brilliant documentary if you have time.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20su5f_the-power-of-nightmares-1-the-rise-of-the-politics-of-fear-bbc-2004_news

A new Al Jaz doco in IS is worth a watch:

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/specialseries/2015/10/enemy-enemies-rise-isil-151017151127849.html

Both on my 'if i have time' list.

The atlantic doc posted by T-V is a good read.

I haven't got it yet

Seriously? Not even a clue?

Not an mtber, obvs.