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@cowhead
cheers for that, thought it would probs be the case, seemed to be a bit non-existent nowadays. i was probably just going to get the clas ohlson one, although was a bit bored and thought id google translate the foreign comments on it, which seemed universally bad- turns out it was loads of angry scandavians saying the lock mech pretty much disintegrates after a while cos of the lack of weather proofing. anyone got any experience of this? which would be a better buy the clas ohlson or this onguard one? http://www.amazon.co.uk/-Guard-Brute-STD-8001-Keyed-Shackle/dp/B00AW7P7JK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1445623549&sr=8-2&keywords=onguard+brute