Cyclists stay back! stickers

That's because they deliver to several markets, of course. (But you know that.)

It's not only that, a traffic scheme that is currently annoying me very much (before it has even been built) is a loading bay being put in for a Tesco Metro that causes numerous knock-on problems because it has to be so large.

The whole point is that lorries in their current form have huge and uncheckable blind spots.

This is a very contestable point. Again, Charlie, a former lorry driver himself, argues that there are merely 'hard to see' spots, and that the strong emphasis that is often placed on 'blind' spots is misguided. He may see this and be able to elaborate. He has posted this several times before, perhaps even in this thread.

Graphic design?

Anyone can colour stuff in, no checks, balances or any special abilities needed, of course.

Thank goodness there aren't any graphic designers on here. You can tell because no-one's said: 'Oh my God, look at those fonts!'

#trollolol

Having a banks man in the cabe at all times would go a long way to negate the debatable blind spot issue. Once an hgv is on site there not allowed to move without one, the HSE give a shit about human live for people at work. Once the killing machine is back on the road again no body gives 2 shits about the general publics safe. the profits of the road haulage are what's important. The road haulage association have blood on there hands, but they also have very well paid lobbyist too.

They're, their.

Don't get upset.

Hmmm, maybe the word 'stats' is a bit generous, I was referring to the met stats regarding fault in KSI's, 20% ish down to cycling error, 75%ish driver error.

My original point being the slogan 'be careful, be alive' wouldn't have helped the 75%ish.

they're an off-road specification, i.e. they're designed to be driven around quarries and the like.

I was talking mainly about the articulated combinations lorries which is also fairly common.

Largely pointless, since on the inside is where almost all cycle lanes are.

If you blindly follow bike lanes you won't last long. You are right the placement of bike lanes is messed up.

Charlie, a former lorry driver himself, argues that there are merely 'hard to see' spots

I'm pretty sure he doesn't. There are blind spots. Even cars have blind spots. Even you on your bike have a blind spots unless you ride with mirrors.

There are blind spots. Even cars have blind spots. Even you on your bike have a blind spots unless you ride with mirrors.

Or, you know, turn around every so often to look at things with your eyes.

You know, like, we can move. We are, for the most part, mobile creatures, and we can move our bodies and our heads in such a way that makes it possible to look at stuff in places that are a bit harder to see, if we want to do that.

The trouble is, no fucker can be arsed, so they don't, and then they say things like "I have a blind spot, you know!"

Or, you know, turn around every so often to look at things with your eyes.

I expected funnier sarcasm at least!

Your neck would have to be 4m long to check the blind spot of the average panel van. Your neck probably isn't 4m long.

You won't need to, you just need to tilted a little to check the mirror for a full view.

If you drive a large vehicle you do have to hope riders aren't going to dart out of your blind spot to your left, you can check and check again but if a cyclist is really reckless accidents will still happen. And this is with the motor vehicle being driven perfectly - which isn't always the case innit.

Which mirror is going to show you behind your van Ed?

That blind spot can hide a Range Rover to a Transit driver ffs.

Hmmm, maybe the word 'stats' is a bit generous, I was referring to the met stats regarding fault in KSI's, 20% ish down to cycling error, 75%ish driver error.

Careful, just looking at distributions in stats can be misleading, c.f. The Potato Paradox

My original point being the slogan 'be careful, be alive' wouldn't have helped the 75%ish.

Sure, and my point is that the slogan isn't trying to target the cases where it's driver error, just as any "Don't speed" or "Don't drink and drive" campaigns don't have any direct relevance to cyclists squished by left turning vehicles. You might be the most careful cyclist possible and still get killed by someone smashing into the back of you (there's little you can do to prevent that). The drivers that left hook people and then point to a sticker on the back of their vehicle as some kind of mitigation are obviously fuckwits.

They are possibly also friends with @bashthebox

Half the lorries in London are empty.

Well obviously, after they have delivered.

Fuck me, you're either a little obtuse or you've got an obstinate death wish or you're just a-bit-daft.
I'm pretty sure that nowhere did I condone lorries killing people, nor would I ever condone people pointing at their sign as an excuse for poor driving. I'm just saying, as everyone presumably is, that once a vehicle starts indicating then it's a pretty fucking stupid idea to start filtering down its left hand side. Isn't it? Is that something you do?

No, it's not what I do.

A lot of people however are not au fait with the blind spots of HGVs and expect a driver indicating to turn left across their path to wait for them before making their turn. People in cars tend not to acquiesce priority to vehicles turning across their path and many people assume correctly they don't have to when on their bikes.

Calling them stupid shows a failure to understand why they do what they do.

No. Read the thread. Lorries are always in the wrong, cyclists are always innocent victims. Now run along and stop trolling.

Is that not therefore a really, really good idea for massive warning signs? I'm not excusing poor driver behaviour, but hey, there's 25% of instances (whatever, I'm just going on those stats quoted above) that aren't driver error and therefore one must assume that 25% of riders in KSIs are ignorant or daft.
"Cyclists stay back" is a terrible warning sticker, "Cyclists, beware of passing on the inside" is a useful warning to 25% or riders. That's a pretty huge number of riders in LDN.

therefore one must assume that 25% of riders in KSIs are ignorant or daft.

amazing victim blaming.

Hey, you know all those nodders we complain about on a daily basis on the commuting thread? You know, those ones who always wear rugby shorts and have a basket covered in flowers and wear flip flops and have hi vis and all that stuff? The ones we always go "cor, they all squeezed down the inside of that bus like lemmings and then all went to the front of the lights couldn't see when there was a green and then wobbled off in front of the angry white van when they got beeped at and then mounted the pavement and and and" about?
They don't actually exist. There's never any blame on the cyclist's part. We're all perfect.

Look, there's so much fucking awful driving and there's so much fucking awful cycling, we all see it on a daily basis. The driving can kill or seriously injure people. The bad cycling generally only hurts the cyclists. That's why we can get really, really pissed off about the bad driving and we can shrug our shoulders when we see a cyclist doing something stupid - it only hurts the cyclist. But in the same was as you'd hope warning signs slow drivers down, make them think about the danger - surely a warning sign on a dangerous vehicle is good for those unaware of the danger?

There's never any blame on the cyclist's part. We're all perfect.

Now you're getting the hang of it.

If all the cyclists were look like the LFGSS average posters the entire world of cycling would be reclused into a sanatorium and be treated for the symptoms of something like schizophrenia-know-it-all-social-climbers-heavy-doped. But sucsessfull ones.

Which, used and sold as a vulcanised sticker it may get the attention of quite a few, from that average of it.