Locks that work

No, bolt cutters are not the tool of idiot thieves. Here in the UK, and in cities mainly, some thieves travel around with vans to quickly throw a bike (or more than one) into. These are the real pros. They look to steal several valuable bikes. The amateur thief looks to ride away on one bike. Those with a van, use a bolt cutter. I'm not sure of how crime is done where you come from, but in the UK, a bolt cutter is definitely the tool of a professional

Well since you invite others to comment then I will. Please shut up.

These threads are a valuable resource, they are not about compromise of what gives the best weight to strength ratio or price per second of security. They are simply about security, what is the best security and what people should be looking at when security is the primary concern.

If people want lighter weight then they can read this thread about the features of a good lock (eg smallest inside diameter to prevent bottle jack attempts) and make their compromise decision based on this informed decision. If people want to maximise the chances that their bike will not be stolen then this thread and the secondary thread are where to look.

You've given your opinion and people can choose whether they agree with you or not. Now would be the time to stop giving it and let the thread continue talking about locks, uncompromising secure locks, heavy expensive lumps of metal that make a thief steal the bike next to yours rather than yours.

As a manufacturer, I'm not going to get drawn into comments about specific locks, but I will state that bolt croppers are most certainly one of the biggest threats to anyone wanting to keep their bikes (bicycles and motorcycles - they are all commonly stolen with bolt croppers). Bicycle thieves often use bolt croppers up to 24"/60cm and occasionally 36"/90cm, whereas motorcycle thieves will very commonly use the b-i-g 42"/105cm croppers. GA2G is absolutely correct that carrying these things in vans is a common approach, generally for the more professional of thieves. Bicycle thieves do carry the 24" ones under a coat, for example.

Thieves will look for the fastest and most reliable way of stealing a bike, often ignoring the damage that may be caused to another bike (so don't rely on one bike 'anchoring' another bike as you can lose one and have the other one trashed). Hammers work quickly on many cheap locks and chains; 42" bolt croppers on virtually anything below 16mm thick where there is access to get the croppers to bear. This latter aspect is why it can be OK to use a lock with a sub-16mm shackle on a 16mm chain, for example, but only when the lock is a close fit on the chain, and even then most certainly only with 'closed shackle' locks.

I disagree with your comment that U-locks are the only things that are relevant, even for portable use. Most thefts happen from home so the heavy chains etc are very relevant and are immune to various of the attacks that can defeat U-locks. U-locks are often more practical to carry and can be used in addition to a chain where possible. They complement each other and have different advantages and disadvantages, but they both have a role.

Dambek, the first post in this thread and in the Secondary Locks thread set the scene for what each thread was seeking to achieve and GA2G and many others have given a lot of help to countless people that are trying to wade through so many options. Many manufacturers don't make it any easier by having subtle changes to product names or indeed to product specifications over time, so a thread like this that has fresh input on a frequent basis is a very useful resource to many people. I don't agree with everything that is said here, but I do think people can make more informed decisions as a result of these threads being available.

In case anyone cares, I picked up a Asakiltt Shackle Lock and OnGuard Brute and am really impressed with both - especially for the price. Heavy as shit though.

Good choices. As long as you keep them lubed with lithium grease, you should have few issues.

Trans-X Security (good design)

Any reason you've listed these as being a good design? It sounds, from Amazon reviews, as if the non-hex end is prone to be gripped and undone. Do you know if that end could be replaced with a regular seatpost bolt (with the hex filled in with solder)? My Soma has a tabbed binder hole, so that end doesn't really need a hex key fitting anyway.

I'm about to (hopefully) update my bike storage, and be able to put ground anchors into a proper surface, rather than the OK attachment that I've currently got.

I've been looking at a couple of options for ground anchors, and was wondering if anyone here had thoughts on them.

I was looking either

or

As we're pouring the concrete for the base, I wasn't sure which was the better option.

Hi MrDrem,
Well, since you asked, we make the second one (the Torc Series II anchor), but the first one (PJB's Concave anchor) is also good. We can supply the Torc with a specific fitting kit that allows you to set it into fresh concrete (so there is more metalwork than you see in your photo, as well as different fixings to hold it all together - PM me and I'll give you a link to our web page that details the range of fitting kits, with more photos).

The Concave has the advantage that it is truly flush when it is installed, until you put a chain through it and then none of them are flush ;-) The Concave can trap water in its 'U' bend, and although there is usually a drain hole (that should be positioned below the concrete), such things tend to get bunged up with leaves etc after a while. That is pretty minor as the security of your bike is likely to be more important than whether the chain gets mucky or not.

To be honest, it can often be what each supplier also offers in terms of Package Deals etc as there may be more difference in terms of chains and locks and other products. If you can get what you want from a single source, you can potentially save on shipping.

Feel free to ask more specific questions if you like.

I hope that helps,

Steve.

These security skewers are a deterrent, and a third level of deterrent rather than Level 1 (u-lock thicker than 16mm), Level 2 (secondary u-lock approx 14mm for front wheel), and the Level 3 would be for parts that can be unscrewed.

Therefore, even the formerly best of all of the security skewers was defeated in the way you're describing. If in a really high crime area, using a ball bearing superglued into the seatbolt fixing, might give more peace of mind. Though it would be a faff to undo.

Better to secure the crank together to downtube or seattube. Ball bearings superglued into vulnerable bits. But essentially, the Tranx is a good design to ward off amateurs.

It's for the seatpin that I'm mostly interested, that'll go on the road bike, but it's not in a massively high risk situation, sat outside my office in Bristol, where I can check on it, in a well populated area, and only occasionally. The wheel axle would go on my SS so I only have to carry one lock when popping into shops.

Not trying to do Pragma, who has shown him/herself to be positive member of the Forum, out of a sale,
but,
if you are laying your own concrete, are you incorporating any rebar, (reinforcing steel rod)?
If yes, you could easily thread the rebar through some large dimension chain, (which would emerge from your concrete floor), to give you a flexible anchor point.
I have also pondered those large steel eyebolts that are used to secure scaffolding to buildings.

My Torc Ground Anchor is still in a box awaiting me getting off my arse and fitting it. It's only been there 18 months or so.

What is worse than the apathy, is that fitting it will make my locking up my bike so much easier too as it'll put the chain in a much more accessible and usable place. (Right now the chain is round the 2" thick electricity cable that comes up from the ground to a distribution box. Good luck to anyone that considers cutting through that #instadeth.)

(BTW, Pragmasis strongly recommended, good stuff and very helpful. No connection, just happy customer of Almax III chain, Squire SS65CS padlock, and some Squire MC4 chains/padlocks)

Likewise, I just picked up a Shed Shackle and a long length of the 13mm chain. They were giving useful advice on the phone and delivered blindingly fast.

If MrDrem wants to do a home-made ground anchor, we would actually suggest it is not a good idea to concrete-in a bit of chain as the link that emerges from the concrete is very vulnerable to attack with hammers etc, as it is very solidly supported and not flipping and flopping around. If it is attacked and damaged/broken, you end up with a lump of concrete and a worthless bit of chain coming out of it with no easy way of fixing it unless you like using a Kango rather a lot ;-)

We suggest a better home made idea is to either get an offcut of 4" underground PVC drain piping and ideally 2 bends to suit, to contrive a big 'U' shaped tube that you would then embed in the concrete, optionally with some rebar sitting within the 'U' and the whole caboodle embedded in the concrete. That 4" pipe will be big enough to take any of the big chains and potentially more than one of them (depending).

Another similar idea is to use a short length of 4" land drain pipe (also available from builders' merchants) and to use a piece of string to hold that in a 'U', and some duct tape or cling film to bung up the holes (as it's porous piping), before embedding that in concrete as above.

Note that the big eyes used for lifting and fixing things are invariably not big enough to take a decent chain. We get that quite frequently, where someone has made an anchor with one of those as the locking point, and then discovered how bulky the decent chains are. You can solve that by using something like a mini-D-lock to go through the eye and the end of the chain, but that combination can itself make the D-lock vulnerable to twisting attacks against the eye. Better, in our opinion, to either do one of the embeded drain pipe ideas above, or to use something with sufficient capacity to take a proper chain ...such as a decent ground anchor :-)

The other thing to be wary about with home made solutions is that they may not satisfy the insurance requirements. Some cycle policies just require an "immovable object" (read the small print), where something like the drain pipe or other idea may do the job, but if they demand something with Sold Secure Bicycle Gold etc approval, there is little option but to go for a commercial product with the right piece of paper. That is exactly why we pay out initially with each new product and on the annual audits again, so that the piece of paper is available for those that need it.

I hope that helps,

Steve ...a 'he' :-)

anyone know where you can buy the 18mm grp lock, and if so, how much for?

Only secondhand probably. The original suppliers have only wholesaled the round barreled 16mm version for a while.

Get this one instead. Keep it lubed it with lithium grease, and you won't look back. http://www.clasohlson.com/uk/Asaklitt-Shackle-Lock/31-2166

Do you know if the size listed is for the whole lock or the useful internal dimensions of the shackle?

As far as I know, its only the Onguard that significantly tapers down, but uses the larger dimension as its listed girth. Other locks are uniform in barrel width, at least for the part that is visible when its locked.

cheers for that, thought it would probs be the case, seemed to be a bit non-existent nowadays. i was probably just going to get the clas ohlson one, although was a bit bored and thought id google translate the foreign comments on it, which seemed universally bad- turns out it was loads of angry scandavians saying the lock mech pretty much disintegrates after a while cos of the lack of weather proofing. anyone got any experience of this? which would be a better buy the clas ohlson or this onguard one? http://www.amazon.co.uk/-Guard-Brute-STD-8001-Keyed-Shackle/dp/B00AW7P7JK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1445623549&sr=8-2&keywords=onguard+brute

If you read ALL the comments, you'll see there is one by me. Yes, it is the same GA2G. The Scandinavians don't protect their locks with lithium grease, and its standard advice (see page one of this thread) for any lock left outdoors.

Its not the lock maker's fault, it is the fault of some rather precious lock users.

Onguard has a better reputation than Clas Ohlson, but I'd still recommend the Clas....if price is the determining factor.

Onguard is obviously better weatherproofed. And, its stood up to very hard tests. Its passed everyone.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

Is lithium grease better than a graphite based lubricant? If so, how do you apply it, simply be pushing it in the key slot and operating the lock?

Lithium grease can be bought as a traditional thick grease, or as a thin aerosol spray. The thick kind is best for the joins of u-locks. This would be applied liberally to both ends of the U and to the connecting points in the barrel. A lithium spray could/would be using in the key/lock mechanism.

Cheers

I haven't read the whole thread but what I have read has been really enlightening. Really good thread.

I've got an Almax Immobiliser III and Stronghold which I've had for years. When I got it I tried to see if Almax would supply me with a single link because I was interested to see how long it would take to cut through with my [edit: brand and type of grinder removed] grinder. They never replied. I'm still interested to know, because it's a properly tonky chain but I don't think it would take too long to cut through with a [edit: type of cutting disc removed]. Since I haven't read the entire thread, has anyone tried cutting one?