That Corbyn fella...

Sign sign sign!

^ In, 291636.

Ok, lets do basic politics

To change things you need a working majority in the House of Commons
That means, under the current rules, you need to win about 100 seats . Most of these are in England and are places like Harlow, Nuneaton, Darwen, Southampton & Ipswich.
That means Labour has to appeal to the voters in these marginal constituencies and gain their votes. The last time this was tried with a Corbyn platform(83) Labour lost massively

Nothing has changed in the rules since then...

So if you want to make Labour a debating society then go ahead. I ve been there and done that..

Ah, so there was a Corbyn platform in 83 and the country is exactly the same now as it was 32 years ago.

^^Then, thank you, comrade Peter Carter.

Scotland could have returned Labour in every constituency and they would have still lost the election, hence the strong feeling being part of the UK doesn't represent our political identity or will.
Thank the lord we've got a Blairite non-entity in charge of Scottish Labour or maybe our national security would be unsecure. Oh, no-all of the UK's nuclear arsenal is parked a few miles from our most populous city. Phew.

SNP not Blairite?

You really have not been paying attention to Nicola and her chums....

and can we have a response to the hard facts of winning elections. I can't say I am a fan of the system but its the one we have to use..

The best chance of changing it was lost by the Lib dems and Labour in 2010 and 2015.

I don't know if you were around in the early -80's?
http://lightrefrain.net/historicalvoting/
Labour was significantly ahed in the polls,
Thatcher & Howe had seemingly for no reason raised VAT from 8 to 15%,
and it was the post-Falklands war fever,
and those splitters of the SDP that gave the Tories a majority,
despite their votes falling by 700,000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1983

Can't rule out itchy trigger fingered Callmedave starting another war,
nor, the Continuity Blairties splitting.
Wouldn't all those 'shy Tories' like their back-at-home kids to be able to afford to rent or buy an affordable house?

I was . I was chair of my local labour party and went on many a march..

I think you were living in a different 1980s...

Mrs T was a lucky politician- all the best ones are ... She had oil to pay for it all

Ok, lets do basic politics

To change things you need a working majority in the House of Commons

You ignored my post as this is exactly the problem I noted. And none of the other candidates appeared to be any more likely of commanding a majority. That is, the problem with Labour gaining a majority is one that is larger than Corbyn being unelectable. Which leads to a second point: what is your evidence he is unelectable? Foot. An election over 30 years ago does not make scientific fact.

It is generally true that getting votes is easier from the centre than from further left or right. This is not rocket science. The problem is that Labour positioning itself as a centrist party post-Blair seems to have done two things: 1) failed to attract votes from the Tories (why? One reason is the claim that those voters seem to see Labour as incompetent on the economy), 2) shed votes from the left.

To preempt a point: It is true that Labour's percentage of vote went up in the most recent election, but this was fairly marginal and could have easily come from one-off Liberal Democrat voters returning to Labour. That pool of votes is not inexhaustible. On the other hand, the Greens and SNP gained many, many, more votes. Those votes will have come from the LibDems and Labour (when not new voters).

If your position is that any of the other leaders could have won the next election, you need to show your work. It's a huge ask for any Labour leader to win back Scotland and increase votes in England to overcome the votes that will be lost in the new constituencies.

But instead your position is that Michael Foot lost an election in 1983 and therefore Corbyn will do the same. You're right; that is basic politics.

Good to see that in 2020 we are still confusing debt and deficit

Scotland could have returned Labour in every constituency and they would have still lost the election

And this will only be worse once the electoral boundaries are re-designed.

No not my position , but an example. That was over 30 years ago . Things are different but the electoral maths remains the same and indeed are now worse. This is not a new problem for Labour.

I can't say any of the other candidate filled me with enthusiasm and I suspect they knew they would be transistional leaders unless "events, dear boy, events" changed things.

The shadow cabinet is interesting ... Lets see what events occur.

The shadow cabinet is interesting ... Lets see what events occur.

This I agree with. There's not much more we can do.

In fact, as I see it, the least (most?) we can do (if we are supporters of Corbyn's potential policies) is try to communicate to people why they are not the mad ravings of a nutjob, as the Conservatives and media are claiming. Those who repeat that he's unelectable or that he's out of touch with reality are only helping the right in their goal. This is even more troubling when those repeating these claims also go on to say they generally agree with him.

Unfortunately, he is both of those things. Well done to those who know this but have stayed.
At least one lesson of the 80s may have been learned - there's no space for another centre left pparty in a 1st past the post system... This is not Borgen.

Alex Tsripas he's not

Why are you conflating the 80s with 2015? It's weird.

Cynicism with politics is a symptom of getting older, sadly. Nothing ever changes, because nothing ever changes.
Still hoping against hope that people will vote for the chap that wants to improve life, not destroy it. But hey ho. 5 years is a long old time.

Age dear boy, age..

In 1983 I was 7, this (which was AN OUTRAGE) meant that I could not vote.

I can, however, vote now.

I'm from the generation that remembers the Milk Snatcher, had tuition fees suddenly arrive, seen us wade into wars to support corporate interests in the USA.

Up until Corbyn the only option that was not openly evil was New Labour - and they were shit.

There has never been a party that I could vote for that represented a group I'd like to see in power, up until now.

^Bit confused, but hopefully you get where I'm coming from.

Dammit for PM

As in dementia?

Not yet....

A fair point though and forgive me the condescension that seems to come with age...

Did I ever mention how I rode a fixed in Hackney in the 80s......

Yes, at least 12 times.

Things change. I can't stress how unbelievable this would have been before it happened: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32604002