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Here are some more pics of the frame & fork being prepped for refinishing.
I can't see any markings on the pieces apart from the angles of the lugs and a serial number on the bottom bracket, nothing on the dropouts.
If anyone could help identifying this frame, that'd be great. I tend to think it might be a Gitane from around late 80's (cable guides, fork, seat stays / seat lug assembly), but I can't find the exact model.Frame
Bottom bracket & chainstay
Seat lug & brake cable guide
Bridge
Bottle mounts on down tube & seat tube
Rear dropouts & chain hanger
Head tube lugs, pump peg & cable guide
Fork
Some of the parts that were on the bike, not sure they are original :
Kinex Bottom brackets, 68mm, 34.7x24 thread, ISO/British thread (1.370"x24)
Atax headset
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good job on stripping it.
You may have problems running it single/fixed as it has vertical dropouts so will need magic ratio/white eno hub/chain tensioner (which would rule out fixed).
Can't help with identifying frame- good luck with the build.
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While I try to figure out parts I want to use and find the frame origin (maybe stick with a time period correct paint job), I'm testing some stuff for a possible blueing with brass inserts & depositing brass rod on the dropout (gilding / leafing on the cheap). This is an old bent MBK fork, useful for that kind of stuff.
Salmonchild : I was thinking about going with a half-link chain and testing various pinions as a start, then maybe a chain tensioner or if I really have no choice, installing track dropouts...
PS : the serial number might be a Trek one, have to dig further that way.
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It's not really gilding.
On the dropout, I'm heating the metal to cherry red and using a flux coated bronze (or brass, not 100% sure) brazing rod. When it starts to flow, I wipe it with a cotton rag to help even the deposition and then quench it in water.
For the 4 little lines, I scored marks approximately 1mm deep with a saw (not sure it needs to be this deep) and did the same as above, followed by filing and sanding to go back to steel outside of the "inserts".What I gathered is that the surface deposition is a tricky business and that it's really difficult to make a nice thin layer of brass, so the part underneath loses a lot of details. The best way might be to do some plating or even traditional gilding with real or imitation gold leaf (lots of colors available nowadays), followed by some 2K clear coat.
For the inserts, this technic might work because you don't really need control the thickness or placement, just get sure that the cavities are full and then sand the surplus away.
Nice simple geometric designs can be done with a simple hand saw, but more complexe ones might be made using either a dremel or a chemical etch of the steel (salt water or vinegar for the cheap safe stuff; hydrochloric, sulfuric or nitric acid for the wannabe chemist that I am).
On this piece I tried some heat coloring but oxy-acetylene is a bit too hot and I can't control the color, not evenly.
All those tests might not be on the yet-unknown frame, but I think I'd like to go with some small brass inserts on parkerized brushed steel with a 2K clear coat, not sure if I want matte or glossy. I might change my mind and just paint it with a flat color.
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Looking at 90's catalog, I figured that the frame might be a Peugeot Professionnel from around 95, but I can't find pictures clear enough to check for details like the cable guides and the cutouts on the lugs. The frame is 1.979Kg & the fork is 0.781Kg.
I also tested another finish and I think I'll keep it. I sanded the test fork once again to get raw steel, then used some rust "destructor" that might contain phosphoric acid but I can't find the security datasheet to check for composition.
The product make white little bubbles while it gets rid of surface corrosion, and then the steel starts to turn brownish or tan. By wiping it with a rag and applying multiple coats, I can get a nice colour that still shows the underlying metal defects.
On those pictures, I used a semi-gloss clear coat (Montana Tech spray can), but I'll be using glossy 2K clear coat on the final bike.
Now I just need to design the brass inserts and test nitric acid etching followed by brass rod deposition and / or copper plating...
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Nice project - the vertical dropouts are long enough for chain tension without half links if you find the right combination http://eehouse.org/fixin/fixmeup.php
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Since the frame is being prepped and everything, I needed another ride to commute. I went back to where I found the first bike and I bought another, this one mostly untouched. I just had to change the pedals and find another saddle. 23€ total...
More pics here
It has the same lugs, the same style of brazing for the seatstays, etc... Even the serial number format is identical, so I guess the other frame is also a Liberia. Only differences are the fork crown & the dropouts, the ones on the new frame are a bit more horizontal...
The paint is a bit rough but those purple and blue flames are just so cool, so I think I'll try to clean it up and touch up some spots, maybe redo the stickers if I can find them. In the mean time, I'll take interesting parts on that new Liberia bike to put on the other one.
- Sachs 5000 front & rear derailleur
- Saccon brakes
- Atax stem
- Philippe Atax Franco Italia D352 handlebars
- Mavic 195 NE Black Electro front rim with Sachs v3 hub
- Rigida Vela 13x622 rear rim with Miche SO699 (not sure about model) hub
Where am I going : I'll try making the bare metal frame a singlespeed, but if the rear dropouts are too much of a pain, I'll put the Sachs derailleurs and use it as a road bike. In which case I'll turn the purple one into a single speed and I'll just refresh the paint job.
Nota Bene : Liberia was a maker from Grenoble, in France, and that's my hometown... I'm looking for catalog scans to be able to pinpoint the models if anyone has a source.
- Sachs 5000 front & rear derailleur
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After 8 month, I finally have a tiny bit of time to work on this project again.
I discovered after sanding that the bottom bracket shell on the original red and black frame was bent out of shape. I decided I'd go with the purple Liberia frame, since the dropouts would allow me to make it into a single speed without using a chain tensioner. I'll be using a 42x18 ratio. I'll also keep the fork from the original bike, there's something really interesting going on with its shape.
I learned from my mistakes : I did all the tests for the conversion of this frame before doing the hard work. Tonight, I was able to get rid of the paint. I also plug-welded & grinded the unnecessary braze-ons (pump, cable pass for the rear derailleur, water bottle nuts), and I removed the rear derailleur and rear fender attachments from the dropouts.
Updated components list :
- Mavic CXP30 rims with original Mavic hubs
- Maillard thread-on freewheel that I modded to keep only the 18t cog
- Shimano HG53 Chain
- Shimano BB-UN71 Bottom Bracket
- Unknown handlebars
I'll try to post more pictures of the detail job tomorrow if anyone is interested.
- Mavic CXP30 rims with original Mavic hubs
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@MrMister Since you'll be here in June, one of the best thing you can do is just chill out and get in shape at the Café des Arts or Buvette du Marché and then head out to the Marquisats beach or on Le Paquier with a couple of bottle of wine and friends. After that, if you wanna party, you can go to the Telephone Rose club (kind of a basic disco but music is not too too bad), or if you want to act like a shitty pimp, the Pop Plage (more expensive, way farther, music is shit-tier, but it's one of the places to be if you want to get some action...)
Just be prepared : restaurants close around 10PM, the bars close around midnight and 1:30AM (so do the kebab shops), and you can't get any alcohol in a shop after 8 or 9...A few pics of the grinding work :
Shifter boss & pump peg removed
Water bottle nuts plug-welded & grinded kind-of-smooth
Rear dropout with derailleur & fender attachments removed
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So here's an update for the "gilding" process. I tried to do some electro-etching and see if I could get a deep enough engraving to make a brass insert.
I made a stencil using electrician tape, and then applied a saturated solution of common household salt. Part is plugged into positive, a little sponge into ground. Let's see what happens.
I'm no chemist, but salt containing Cl and water H, the vapors should be HCl, or Hydrochloric Acid. Take your precautions if you want to try that little trick.
The engraved piece. Being an exothermic reaction, the tape I used started to peel off the steel, maybe the reason for the jagged edges. Kapton tape should be a better stencil material. Depth of the engraving is around 0.2mm after a solid 10 minutes. Should work.
Part is brazed with flux-coated brass rods, and it flows quite nicely. I then brush and sand until I remove all the excess brass on the outside of the engraving.
And finally, I apply a phosphoric acid solution (rust remover) reacting on the surface of the steel, but not on the brass. This darkens the steel and creates contrast.
It's the same process used a couple months back on my finish tests, but I guess the rust remover lost a bit of punch or the plate I used to test this time is just not reacting the same, I couldn't get the same tan / brown tint.
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Hello everyone,
I had a few days to keep working on the bike. I had to finish it, so I kept all the weird stuff out of the way and just went with a browning of the frame using some gun product, Ballistol Klever Schnell Brunierung. You just apply it with a rag or a brush, let it sit for a couple of minutes and then clean it with water and dry it with a rag. Youtube video below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lscDTjR2y30
You should protect the black oxide layer with oil just after drying it, but I got it to get a bit grittier by letting it sit overnight.
I then wiped the brown surface rust with a dry rag, degreased with acetone and sprayed 3 layers of 2K clear coat.
And here it is, with temporary tires, handlebars, seat and brake levers. I had to ride it today :)
Those pictures don't show all the details that the browning and clear-coat brought, I'll try to get better picture when the sun comes out.
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Interesting painting technique, never heard of this before. Btw fix your saddle angle mate and put on a front brake if you have one. :)
MCamb
salmonchild
Thuekr
MrMister
Boarsie
russmeyer
vpCogworks-
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About
First conversion : Liberia frame
Posted by
@melka
Hi everyone.
First let me introduce myself. My name is Kamel, I'm from Annecy (France), and I always liked track bikes but never really got around to getting a nice one.
Last weekend, I went to that club where they fix and sell bikes that are thrown away. I was able to pick up a black and red frame that was obviously somebody else's project that was never finished. In a way, I'm glad, because the paint job was really ugly and the handlebars got chopped up by someone who doesn't know how to use a saw...
13€ later (10 for the bike, 3 for the replacement handlebars) and a couple hours of fixing up, I was able to ride it back home.
I still don't have a clear picture as to how that bike should look, but I know that I want to start by having a single-speed and maybe later convert it to a retro-direct.
From what I gathered on the forum, I think that the frame might be a Joe Waugh / Dave Yates (similar lugs with the triangle cutout), a Raleigh (Lugs) or a Gazelle (gear & cable guide braze-ons) but I'm pretty sure I'm wrong, I don't know the stuff enough yet.
I just registered on the forum and I only have those crappy pictures, but the bike is now disassembled and I'm almost finished getting rid of all that paint. I'll try to post better ones tomorrow.
If anyone has any info on that frame, I'd be more than glad to hear you !
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