What do you think about motorists? (For research paper)

+1
I am a motorist. I think I am an ok sort of person, most of the time.

The Personal Construct Psychology perspective suggests that

People develop constructs as internal ideas of reality in order to
understand the world around them. They are based on our
interpretations of our observations and experiences. Every construct
is bipolar, specifying how two things are similar to each other (lying
on the same pole) and different from a third thing.

So maybe the problem is that we have too many socio-psychologists (*) out on the streets looking for tribal warfare where it may not exist.

I suspect that when we are motorists much of the feeling towards unprotected road users comes from our own fear, perhaps subliminal fear, that we are not totally in control of our machine, and we are afraid of hurting other people. It is human nature to externalise those fears, creating a fictional "other", rather than admitting and embracing our own inadequacies.

Much the same is true when we are riding bikes. I often have to deal with people complaining about dangerous pedestrians being a threat to people on bikes. The standard response "have you considered cycle training" is not always well received.

(* should that be "psycho-sociologists")

while writing the above I was interrupted for 20 mins by the RAF red arrows doing silly things in jets over the back garden. The pigeons in the plum tree were not impressed. I wonder what they thought of the pilots?

1 Attachment

I submit to you that actually the problem is that we even think of them as 'motorists' rather than just other people on-road who happen to be in bulkier machinery.

And, for the record- I've seen far more cyclists behaving like total cunts on the road than I have people in cars.

Well said, and well said.

By professional drivers do you mean black cab, private hire and bus drivers?

HGV drivers . Freight mainly

Do you still have your anti motorcycle bias?

I actually think you are wrong. Sticking people in a car, with lots of sound proofing totally discontented from the road aurally as well as physically meaning that the person in the car has less to fear. In general people give a shit about themselves and maybe close family and friends, some other random person gets no thought space at all. We have technology to help the person inside the car survive and now exterior wise things are progressing, but people buy cars on their crash rating and not the harm it could do to someone outside the car. Quite a few studies have gone in to this to help sell cars.

As to your comments about cyclists, I thing the calling out bad cyclists thread on here shows a different opinion.

Interesting what is their pay structure, load/or time or doesn't matter.

Was this part of cpd for drivers?

Some were cpc and some from essential council drivers

There is no actual reason I'm just being nosey and wondered if those opinions differed on the time and pay aspects.

Sticking people in a car, with lots of sound proofing totally discontented from the road aurally as well as physically meaning that the person in the car has less to fear.

Good point. I've always thought that the roads would be a much nicer place if all motorists were able to drive convertibles. The removal of that communication barrier would make a lot of difference in my opinion. Whether I am cycling or driving, I tend to just see 'cars', not the actual people within them.

In general people give a shit about themselves and maybe close family and friends, some other random person gets no thought space at all.

I'm sorry you feel that way!

We (people who drive) actually aren't all cnuts.

Do you still have your anti motorcycle bias?

That's an interesting question, which of course has no validity as I don't think I ever had such a bias. I used to own and ride motorcycles but I more or less stopped that when I came to Britain and discovered how cold and wet it is.
I am perhaps known as the person who leads opposition to plans for allowing people on motorcycles to use bus lanes. That oppositions was based, in part, on predictions of increased casualties to people on bikes or on foot. After various trials and impact studies there wasn't conclusive evidence on the impact on other road users. What was clear from the data was that allowing people on motorcycles to use bus lanes increased the risk of casualty to themselves. TfL now spend a lot more on enforcement and training to counteract this increased risk. So opposition to people on motorcycles being allowed to use bus lanes is in their best interest.

Motorists: interaction with cyclists always courteous when encountering rider with 2yr old on bike seat. #mosteffectiveroadsafetyinterventionever?

I'm always checking out the people inside the cars to see if they are looking at me and if that's affecting what they are about to do. I do this because I've ridden bikes/motorcycles in C. London for tens of thousands of miles and I'd like to be able to carry on without serious injury.

I also drive a car and a van and I don't recognise myself in the stereotypes for behaviour in the different categories, but I don't doubt that I've annoyed or or caused minor inconvenience to many people in the years driving in London just by being on the roads.

@lynx As miro_m said "I'm sorry you feel that way" Which I've said to a few motorists over the years because of their opinions/actions towards bikers.

I do have a list of stereotypes pegged for certain behaviour that I dislike though, and some pet hates, so no different from everyone else really.

Now this is wandering away from Skydancer point - Sorry

I have always found that you have to keep an eye on a cars occupants to have an idea what they are going to do. Such as watching the heads of the driver to guess a possible direction change. Having the fortune or mis fortune of driving several kinds of vehicle it gives me a different perspective on how other road users treat other depending on what vehicle they are driving.

Maybe I have become hard/bitter but (and there is always a but) I get that impression from peoples comments when someone commits suicide and they are late for work. The slowing down of traffic to view an accident, the watching someone faint or fall and walking round them or complaining that they are making you late.

Years ago when the serco van ran over the woman at the brixton ritzy, I was there to see it and was quite shocked at what I saw, the aftermath was made worse with people videoing the scene on their phones and road users complaining that things were blocking the road. I ended up getting on my bike and just riding off. Someone died and (lots of people, I stopped counting at 15) people were videoing the dead person.

There have been other experiences that make me look at people, in broad strokes, and think they are very self centered.

Interesting spin, especially as the predictions never happened. What were the predictions based upon? You forgot to mention allowing PTW in bus lanes would reduce cycling numbers, but that didn't happen.
Also your final comment about increased injuries to motorcyclists were that vehicles were crossing their path while travelling in the bus lane. But wasn't that statistically similar to filtering accidents? But hey ho, feel free to live in your bubble along with the motorcycles being like shot guns.

I would suggest less time commuting and more time socialising.

The rubbernecking thing is probably also a symptom of too much time spent bored in transit.

Found this picture for this thread

1 Attachment

Cars above bikes. Bloody typical :madface: etc.

New page too. Bloody typical. :madface: etc.

Late to this thread.

I disagree with any equivocation of motorists and cyclists. I realise the two groups are not completely distinct...

But with the news this week reporting that nearly 30,000 people die prematurely because of vehicular emissions every year in the UK, do you think many people are re-evaluating their car usage? Never mind all other numerous negative externalities of single occupancy car journeys.

Given that the majority of trips in the UK are under 5 miles, I think there's an intrinsic selfishness in typical car users in the UK. It's not usually a conscious thing, but anyone who even occasionally applies some introspection to their habits and how their lifestyle might negatively impact on others should be able to identify certain activities that are harmful to others and often, using a car is one of them. That's the broad look at it.

From a narrower, more anecdotal perspective, I find that the majority of car drivers act in a relatively courteous way towards me when I'm cycling or walking, but that a significant minority acts, at best with a dangerous lack of regard, and at worst with outright potentially lethal aggression.

The question in the thread title should refer to driver behaviour (and there should be an equivalent question somewhere about rider behaviour) as opposed to any kind of personal identification. Obviously, there's a lot of slippage between the two; when we get annoyed by someone, we tend to be annoyed at them as well as their behaviour, as, after all, they were the ones who behaved in this way. There is just so much precious time and energy wasted by getting divisive because people don't want to differentiate, especially in anger, and it all gets very confused when separating things out (e.g., into all the different categories of manoeuvre that people can get wrong) is quite laborious. We then use convenient shortcuts, as often in politics, by attacking the person. We've all done it, as it's easy to get carried away on the wings of a pre-existing foul mood.

(As a minor note, another reason why the label 'motorist' is problematic is because it's often assumed to refer to drivers only. It is perfectly possible, however, for someone to say that they are a motorist even if they don't or can't drive. I have known some wheelchair users who were entirely reliant on private motorised transport, with a chauffeur, to get around, for instance, and who gladly applied that label to themselves.)

I agree with this and would add that the selfish element for me is also because a driver is mire likely to cause more severe harm to others than a person cycling I walking, unintentionally (which is the main reason I no longer drive?

Agree that the question should have been about driver behaviour Oliver. I won't change the thread title now but will ensure this point is addressed in the paper