That Corbyn fella...

Plus one on the general move of politics if to the left. Tories are passing most major New Labour ideas through as legislation. Labour moved right but the dissatisfaction with Blair and Brown post Iraq and financial crisis left many loyal votes wondering what to do. The Cons moved left taking control by being organised and carrying out basic financial measures to appease the city and promote growth. New Labour lost the ground in the last election because no one suitable was steering Labour to get real votes as Ed wasn't New Labour and left people confused and with a lack of faith in him.

Labour is in this situation because they didn't promote any MP to public light as potential next leader during the fall of Ed. When he was elected leader it was pretty much 50% support for a leftist leader. The poster boy for continuing New Labour post Blair was old David who resigned, so that remaining half of the party were left without someone Blairite to believe in.

Come this election after many front benchers lose their seats and we have this chaos as the party tries to jam anything into the hole that is leaking votes to the right, hence the across the board support for anyone except Corbyn.

Meanwhile the Tories who aren't conservative and have taken up camp on Blair's old stomping ground can keep kicking Labour as they are so weak they don't fight back or oppose as a united force. Osbourne's Mic Drop moment of introducing the national living wage was a total Knockout for kicking Labour when they are down, effectively taking hold of their fist and pumelling them til they cry. The Gay marriage bill (A massive Left hook from the Tories, still really doesn't seem like it was ever something that could happen) had the affect of pissing on the crumpled, beaten, bleeding body of Labour as it was strewn out on the floor clutching for a helping hand from ol' Clegg.

Regardless of Corbyn, Labour is absolutely screwed as being the opposition party as they are too busy trying to put plasters on the cuts while Robot PM Cameron is coming in for a final blow to fracture them into total division.

Regardless of Corbyn, unless voting reform comes (however unlikely Gay marriage was, this seems forever set to be as first past the post) a united stand against the Tories is going to be on the books as 100 to 1 for a long time

This sums up alot of the fucking problem; 'it is a strategy of power that keeps any opposition constantly confused' - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggr8zTJsvZA

I'd like to cite the Lib Dems at this point.

They were a party with an ideology. They wanted meaningful change and spent 30 years carefully convincing the electorate of this.

Then they started seeing that they might actually get some power and focused on that as the goal rather than their ideology.

So they sold out and went into a coalition with the Tories.

It didn't go well.

Sorry but what a load of tosh. 1) Until Labour moved right they have always been more naturally alined with the Conservatives. 2) they were still a tiny party despite their short lived success with no chance of holding power. 3) You can clearly see now they've gone the extent to which they kept the Torys in check. 4) it really wasn't as bad as all the bedwetting Lib Dem supporters made out. They couldn't grasp that they were a minority party in a coalition.

I didn't appreciate 3) at time. But boy it didn't take long after this election :-(

You do realise the tory MPs in the house voted convincingly against the "Left hook from the Tories" on marriage equality?

Yes but facts don't mean anything in politics, only spin. People don't always remember that Tories were split down the middle on the vote for it, they remember Gammon faced Dave and people celebrating marriage equality. It was passed under Cameron, Fleet Street had little work to do in airbrushing the figures. The opportunity to claim it as victory for the opposition was there for the taking, like so many other occasions, Labour could easily have triumphed in the moment and gained support.

I think the issue with labour is that (aside from Corbyn) they don't actually know what they are, only what they want- power.

Until they work out that they need to stand for something (other than "potentially not as evil as the Tories") they are doomed to chase their own tails.

Whatever happens it can't be worse than Kinnock.
(Unless it is)

"Tories" might have, but the fact that it had sufficient Conservative backing to be agreed is a significant step and whether you like them or not goes to show the sway liberal conservatives* hold in the party now - regardless of their number.

*who have always been there historically but from the late '70s have been over shadowed by the more Thatcherite elements. strong text

.

I think Yvette Cooper's campaign are getting a little desperate

AND another fucking thing RE:Where is Labour Going?

Any potential progress towards a position of strong opposition is limited until the party unites with a statement of condemnation against Blair's actions in partnership with Bush Jr. Perhaps this will come when (if ever) Chilcot publishes his findings. It would do a lot of good to speak now based on the available evidence and push Blair and his closest cronies away from the party. Especially as Tony still leads a very fucking international role -

http://english.pnn.ps/2015/08/17/meshal-gaza-israel-negotiations-to-be-mediated-by-blair/

Free tickets - "Come and join Professor Mitchell in conversation with Richard Murphy (Tax Research UK) and Ann Pettifor (Prime Economics), both currently economic advisors to Jeremy Corbyn’s campaign. How can the debate on the economy be reframed around the things that really matter – people and the environment? Does MMT hold the key?"

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/reframing-the-debate-economics-for-a-progressive-politics-tickets-18152122487

Paul Mason on People's QE... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKv48n4MzII

Don't mess with me, Mr Blair...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/20/jeremy-corbyn-apologise-iraq-war-behalf-labour-leader

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/corbyn-to-apologise-for-blairs-peoples-princess-bullshit-20150821101349

Ah, love the Mash sometimes!

This is excellent

http://www.gerryhassan.com/blog/let-us-face-the-future-labour-jeremy-corbyn-and-the-power-of-the-past/#more-3712

bit quiet on the Corbyn front recently. partly due to other events - airshow disasters, migrants etc I suppose. havent seen a poll for a while. i'm still to cast my £3 vote. Still planning to vote for Corbyn.

ah, just seen there has been a debate on sky.

I've cast mine, I went Corbyn Creasy.

Sadly Corbyn will make labour a party of protest, not government, as illustrated by the comments on this thread from his supporters saying they don't care if he can't get elected. Personally I find the idea of another ten years of tory government a bit depressing. We have an ageing population, the grey vote is the vote that counts, so however many exited young metropolitan people, green party supporters, Islington socialists and even a few Ukippers vote labour, it's not going to win back middle England and the working class.

By the way I really like Corbyn, it's just that not enough other people do or ever will. Sometimes I feel very optimistic about all the support he's getting, but my gut feeling is it's from a very vocal minority, from whom I hear alot, living in affluent London.

Who did you vote for?

Cooper, then Burnham. I saw one debate between the four, and thought Cooper was the most poised and authoritative. She was not rattled by personal attacks, whereas Burnham came accross a little whiny. Policywise, I think they are both quite similar. I also would like to have a woman as leader.

Cooper comes across as a bit too new labour for me. While I think New Labour is more electable than Corbyn, I don't think they'd get in and become more leftwing afterwards, that didn't happen last time!