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• #2
It would take one rider, sponsor or race organiser to step up and really get the ball rolling on a movement for progression.
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• #3
As posted on the TdF thread:
I think we have an opportunity here to do a bit better than just ban podium girls. That way you write women out of the script of an event even more. I'm not sure that does women, and women pro cyclists especially, any greater favours than having podium girls.
On the other hand, there's women and girls across the country who are racing, improving and obviously winning. You could get some of them to present awards and trophys at the end of stages and races. Get them to wear club or team colours, announce who they are and some of their palmares. That way they get some exposure as a sports person. The next time the audience is at a race where there's a women's event, they'll know a bit more about the people their watching. You'll hand feed them an attachment to the riders and help address the current lack of interest in women's racing
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• #4
But what campaign? - petitioning British Cycling? Tour of Britain? Team Sky?
The first port of call for me would be the race organiser. It's basically their shout. You can then take the campaign to sponsors, teams and BC to garner their support.
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• #5
It might be a good idea to start by writing to British Cycling, Aviva and the other 'partners' of the Tour of Britain to clarify their stance on it. If the Tour of Britain was vocally podium-girl free then perhaps other races may follow. Or maybe aiming higher, for a GT or a Classic, though less likely to succeed, might be more effective.
Either way, I'm fully behind it. I was watching the highlights the other day when my fiancée noticed the podium girls and was struck by how outdated and ridiculous it is. You can't argue with that, it's just daft really.
http://www.tourofbritain.co.uk/partners/index.php#.VbeB19m9LCQ
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• #6
I've long thought that at the Tour it would be better to have boys and girls from a local club on the podium, encouraging cycling and equality in general.
There's a heck of a long way to go. Look at the Giro where every day women in ludicrous clothes, colour-coded to match the various jerseys, parade up and down the finish straight before the stage. That's when the camera men (I assume) are not perving over attractive young women in the crowd. -
• #7
I think it's a good point, obviously there's a need for someone to hand the trophy, prize or jersey to the winner but I think if it were to be a female cyclist she'd be likely scrutinised in the same way as the 'podium girls'... Maybe if we could replace them with female and male cyclists, or young riders from local cycling clubs that'd be a better way... - similar to the young kids - boys and girls - at the beginning of football matches - whatever they're called... ?
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• #8
Snap.
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• #9
yes, that's a good place to start.
Does anyone want to team up with me? help me draft some emails?
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• #10
I understand the objections to silly, inappropriate outfits and sexist behaviour. Maja Leye springs to mind. I heard a radio interview with her and Marianne Vos, both saying they saw no harm in the tradition of ceremonies like this though. And most female pro cyclists I have heard speak out about this would rather have nice podium guys handing out the flowers in their awards ceremonies.
I'm unsure about the the fact that flowers and awards are being handed out by women who kiss the winner is a serious/determining factor in spoiling the experience of watching pro cycling races for many people, male or female. Also I find it hard to imagine that the disappearance of these girls from the stage will somehow boost coverage of women's races. Other factors (like not having the Giro Rosa in the same time slot as the Tour de France) will be more important I think.
Of course, there's always room for new traditions. A positive approach may work better than expecting (judging) that 'if it were to be a female cyclist she'd be likely scrutinised in the same way as the 'podium girls'' though.
Good luck with the campaign, seriously interested in the replies you'll get from the teams and organisers.
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• #11
As I said on the TdF thread, this isn't something limited to cycling, think of F1 girls, or cheerleaders. In Cheltenham ahead of a race meet you'll have models dressed in jodhpurs, boots, tweed jackets and riding helmets handing out flyers in the town centre. It is also a part of the modelling industry that provides an income to many people.
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• #13
if it were to be a female cyclist she'd be likely scrutinised in the same way as the 'podium girls'
I think it's a lot less likely, particularly if it's presented well. It would be presenting a local rider to local audiences. There would be there to present the prize because they're riders, not because they're superficially pretty.
But I think you're right, junior riders, boys and girls could be the better option. Not only would you be rewarding them for being in the sport but you would be elevating the status of the sport at their level.
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• #14
I do genuinely think that to replace the podium girls with female cyclists would be problematic because of the context... if there was no history of women being used as decoration in the sport it might not be a problem... so, yeah, agreeing with The_Seldom_Killer
re. whether it'll effect or boost the coverage of female cycling it may just be a super long term thing... The more women who get into the sport, the more equal the gender balance... you never know... but at the moment - if you are a young girl who likes cycling, you watch the tour de france and you see the girls wearing pretty dresses you don't exactly see any female role models who are cyclists... you see female role models who are models.. so it's a long game thing..
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• #15
I'm unsure about the the fact that flowers and awards are being handed out by women who kiss the winner is a serious/determining factor in spoiling the experience of watching pro cycling races for many people, male or female.
as a female cyclist i can wholeheartedly say that watching a (lovely, i'm sure but) not-even-tangentially-related-to-cycling (by appearances) woman kiss a man and hand over flowers for a totally arbitrary reason is depressing. it lowers people's expectations for women, however subliminally. if you think "no it doesn't", explain why you don't have some buff male models giving winning female cyclists flowers and kisses? it is all linked - if women were accorded the same rights and expectations as men (appreciating and accommodating, of course, the inherent differences as well) starting with things on the podium, i really believe things would change - less sexualised verbal abuse towards female cyclists on the road (my favourite bugbear), more women's races, more women racing, more coverage of these races. consider it a cyclist's theory of intersectionality.
personally, if i won a race i'd rather my flowers were presented by the race organiser, or a sponsor representative because sponsors are a huge part of pro racing, or the delightful idea of a local school or cycling proficiency/club. i want equality for men and women and everyone in between and i don't see why that's so much to ask, but it will need a lot of momentum. i'm really glad it's being talked about.
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• #16
I agree about F1 etc - but the whole models-at-the-event promoting stuff is one thing - models at the podium getting prime time coverage is another.....
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• #17
Wether or not Leye herself explicitly condemns Sagan is not really of interest to the case, I would say. An argument like this often occurs when social practices are addressed by people demanding change; a member of the affected group claims it does no harm and is now supposed to have spoken for the entire group. Besides this, it also implies that only this affected group can be the final arbiter of the matter. This is not true.
While related via our concepts of sexuality, gender and the way gender is used to prescribe social practices, there is a difference between the matter of groping a female body and the display of female bodies as trophies. It is this last issue that the OP wants to address, I believe. This is not so much about spoiling the experience, but constitutes a demand to change a social practice that arises out of culturally constructed gender dynamics that we no longer want to see performed. The performance of these dynamics is what constitutes them and vice versa, this is the paradox of culture.
The argument arising from this is that by consciously removing a certain performance from the public space the perception of the relation that the practice depicts can also change. This would finally mean that the practice becomes meaningless. We don't now thank the Egyptian God Ra for a victory because we do not believe this to be significant. We might in the future just award someone a trophy and leave it at that.
Finally, you are right that this may not incite people to suddenly cheer on female professional cyclists. I can only say that this is (hopefully) not the aim of this campaign, as it would severely complicate a relatively straightforward request. Yes, @Van_Damage, a long game. As has been indicated, it can be rather stifling to examine every expression of inequality at once. Having one race change it's ceremony would be the most powerful statement at this point! :)
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• #18
brilliant!
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• #19
It is also a part of the modelling industry that provides an income to many people
Hahaha lol.
Anyway, yeah. Using podium girls to hand over prizes + smooches can get fucked. Love the idea of using local/national yoot cyclists instead.
I don't really like the idea of using woman cyclists to present the prizes. You don't see male domestiques handing out any flowers to race winners, so why should the women have to do it? The association with podium girls picked for their appearance is tainted, and starting to pick women for their skills instead of their boobs is still going to be tainted. It can fuck off.
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• #20
I think it needs some of the teams to start saying that it is wrong. I find it a horrible part of the tour. I quite often watch the highlights with my 12 and 14 year old daughters and the podium girls convey utterly the wrong impression.
I know cycling isn't alone in this, but that in no way makes it right.
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• #21
I don't think that's due justification. Just because other sports do it, doesn't mean cycling has to do it as well.
It's an existing issue that women pro riders don't have a minimum wage and often have to supplement their income through other work (Emma Pooley more or less lived off her winnings from triathlons to support her pro racing career). If you're going to give out money to stand at the side of the podium and hand out flowers, medals and jerseys then at least keep it within the sport. It's a bit arrogant and stupid to shed tears over hard up models losing some income while blithely ignoring would be pro riders who are already unable to stick in their chosen profession because they basically have no money. Let's not forget that, like models, being a pro cyclist is actually a job. It places demands on your time and life and, as far as men are concerned, pays for a place to live, bills, food and all those other life essentials and possibly a family as well. This whole "oh won't someone think of the poor models" is, in the current scenario of pro cycling, a complete and utter red herring. It doesn't merit any more consideration than this.
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• #23
I can recall something else I read which wasn't that but by someone who had been approached from the role. I can't find it immediately on Google but that one popped up and was rather well expressed.
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• #24
yep.. and £50!
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• #25
I watched a bit of the podium ceremony for the Tour final stage, and apart from thinking Froome's head was beautifully framed by the Arc de Triomphe, and having a chuckle at him holding up a cuddly lion, it did strike me as being all a bit old-fashioned getting kisses from models in matching yellow outfits.
I won a prize (yay!) at a local running race recently, and the organisers had bagged an elite (male) race walker to dish out the prizes, which seemed entirely appropriate. Nothing wrong with a bit of ceremony and razzmatazz to make things look good, but I agree that getting people connected with the sport/local stars/kids involved is the way to go. I wonder whether you're more likely to get some momentum going here than on the continent? Strikes me that there could be more work to do there. (I couldn't imagine Froome pinching someone's bottom.)
Hiya,
It's been a while since I've been on here.. I've been chatting over on the Tour De France 2015 thread about this article I read last night about podium girls over at Pretty Damned Fast.com - pls read here:
http://www.prettydamnedfast.com/blog/2015/7/5/nopodiumgirls
and a resulting petition:
https://www.change.org/p/union-cycling-internationale-bann-podium-girls-from-all-cycling-events
Wanted to ask you all about ways you think of approaching this subject and ways of encouraging race organisers to make the experience of watching cycle races more female friendly - with a hope that that in turn will boost female cyclists taking up the sport, and maybe also to boost the coverage of women's races.
I wondered whether the petition above is a little too world-wide to make much of a difference - and whether you had any better ideas. It would be great to get LFGSS behind a campaign. But what campaign? - petitioning British Cycling? Tour of Britain? Team Sky?