Crap 'Buzzwords'

^ sophistry

Give one example the word "beg" meaning to assume, outside of this weird phrase.

Hey, why not give me an example of the word "question" used to mean "conclusion"?

the word "beg" is presumably derived from an antiquated usage of "beg" meaning to take for granted.

so you're suggesting that the long established logical fallacy of 'begging the question' needs to find a new term to describe it because those words could mean other things, and they are better suited to describing a question that requires asking, even tho the misused version of the phrase wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for the initial description of said fallacy which appears to have been erroneously appropriated by people attempting to appear smarter than really are?

no thanks, lol!

its literal meaning is far from opaque

infer an air of verbose authority

lolerz

Do one.

so you're suggesting that the long established logical fallacy of 'begging the question' needs to find a new term to describe it because those words could mean other things

Yes. To most people they mean something else.

and they are better suited to describing a question that requires asking

Quite, hence why most people understand and use the term 'incorrectly'.

It doesn't matter what you or I think though. The popular meaning of the phrase has shifted already so you're fighting a losing battle.

Loosing.

mediocrity wins! yay!

"Yes. To most people they mean something else."

"hence why most people understand and use the term 'incorrectly'."

these two points are contradictory

these two points are contradictory

Explain how.

Also, are you familiar at all with the field of historical linguistics? Don't read a textbook on it. You'll top yourself.

no thanks.

you suggest these words are being used by people because they understand them to 'mean something else' and go on to suggest that they do in fact understand the meaning but choose to use it incorrectly .

pick one. any one. option b comes with a massive 'citation needed' sticker.

You've misunderstood me (or perhaps I wasn't clear).

People think that "begging the question" means:

a. "raising the question" rather than
b. "presupposing the conclusion"

because the commonly understood, modern sense of the words "begging" and "question" are more similar to the meaning in a. than b.

possibly. they're still wrong tho :)

But sense a. is based on a double mistranslation and 16th century English usage. So how is that better?

how do you know it's a mistranslation? don't like it? take it up with aristotle. fact is, the concept of petitio principii, or in its more familiar guise, 'begging the question' continues to be of use, and we'd do well to point it out when the very same people that are fond of using the phrase incorrectly are guilty of its true meaning. Remember when tony blair and chums asserted that we had to invade iraq, because we didn't want the smoking-gun proof of their weapons of mass destruction to be a mushroom cloud over one of our cities, they were claiming as the premise of their argument the idea that the iraqis had or were on the verge of having nuclear weapons. But whether or not they had such weapons was precisely what needed to be proved in order to justify the invasion, so it could not be itself used as proof of the need to invade to preempt their use of such weapons. (i have paraphrased some of that statement but you get the idea.)

Did you read the link I posted in my first post on this topic?

It's a mistranslation from Greek to Latin, then from Latin into a form of English we don't speak any more...

an irrelevance. the etymology of the words don't alter the intent of its original meaning.

I'm a bit busy to discuss this right now, but you're getting wronger and wronger as you go.

Have you studied linguistics at all? Do you know who gets to decide what words mean?

Get a life you dorks. Yeah

yeah i'm done. it's getting a bit 'do u evn lift' in here. enjoy your race to the bottom.

Which begs the question: why were we discussing it in the first place?

ha!