• ^^Don't think Ed's alone there, not sure I'd be in any hurry to try them.

    I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the hed Ardennes plus, but archetypes really are hard to beat for value, guessing the tb14 would be the same if wanting a box profile rim.

    In terms of Chris king, I only have experience the classic hub, bought them secondhand as a built wheelset, luckily on hed c2's, but wasn't, or wouldn't be too concerned as rims are rebuildable and the hubs totally, and easily serviceable. I bought (and from what @fussballclub says about the r45's) would recommend getting the hub servicing tool when/if one comes up cheap. partly as I'm not near a shop that has one and mainly because I like doing things myself, but in theory should keep them running for years yet, so a sound investment. And it nice to give them a strip clean and grease whenever suits you.

    Similar good experience of Royce. A Venus rear, lightweight front gives a very reliable build. Rear would be a bit heavier than the r45 and it would be nice to see a lighter option, but I don't doubt they'll last a lifetime if looked after. Having cliff at the end of the phone sells them on after sales alone and always good to support him. I have an early version of the Venus, and recently needed new bearings (well one, but worth changing all when sending back to him) he took it back fully serviced the hub, drilled the now standard grease port and did me a great deal on the grease tool.

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