Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

Advice needed please, have Ultegra 6800 hubs and 2X 32H Archetypes - now need to order spokes to build up 3X. I'm 85Kg and the wheels are for general use - good weather commuting, weekends etc. Need advice on spoke & nipple choice

1. Measured ERD as 592mm
   
2. Spoke choice - race F&R/race R laser F/d-light F&R?
   
3. Nipple length - 12mm or 14mm?
   
   

Thanks

Steve

Just seen this never seen any miche hub suffer a failure due to cracking. Have had many issues with some novatec hubs though for example the f482 sb sl hub with there more expensive ezo bearings suffering bearing failures on the first ride. Stopped selling that hub now after that. So yes the worlds leading hub manufacturer is great at everything they do.

Steve erd is 593mm, 592 is on the short side but will still give the same results.

Front laser 289mm rear ds race 288mm rear nds laser 289mm. 12mm nipples work but you have to careful or you might scratch the rim. Sapim spokes come with 12mm nipples so just be careful and tension with a 4 sided nipple key as you cant let the tool sit against rim.

never seen any miche hub suffer a failure due to cracking

And yet I've run out of spare lock nuts because I keep sending them to people with cracked Miche track hub lock nuts :-)

I'm soon going to be building up 18 identical wheelsets for a race team.
Record hubs (32h) to DT440s. Spokes have been ordered, all sorted, I think they're DT Competition.

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I've built probably 70-80 wheels before for individual builds/projects, but could certainly use some advice on getting these all built in an orderly, professional way. Any specific methods for batch builds?

They will be used for training and ridden hard, 20+ hours per week in all conditions. There will also be crashes. We've had trouble servicing wheels out here (Eastern Africa) because of seized/proprietary nipples. How can I make these wheels bombproof? Do DT Competition spokes come with brass nipples? Which grease/oil/compound/threadlocker?

Maybe you should do all the front wheels in threes or sixes, then the rears? Maybe you could repeat lacing spoke 1 of 4 each time to get into a nice rhythm once you're lacing up spokes 3/4 and 4/4.

The problem could be moving from wheel to wheel easily without having piles of wheels all falling over around you and getting confused as to what's going on. Perhaps a trolly with your spokes and nipples (& washers?) all lubed and neatly available, then keep each wheel in one place as you move the trolly along your line. Put spoke 1/4 in each wheel, then go along and do 2/4, then 3/4 and then 4/4. Then a really systematic tensioning regime along the line.

I think it would do my head in!

Or maybe just clone yourself.

A nipple driver in an electrical hand drill will save you loads of time. Firstly you mount nipples much faster. Secondly as the driver loose engagement at about the same point you will have a fairly even tension as a starting point for finer tuning.

You can see mine in this pic. Made from an old screwdriver.

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Do DT Competition spokes come with brass nipples?

If you buy them in boxes, they come without nipples, so you have your choice of nips to order separately. I like the DT Sapim Hex ones, very easy to work on as you can tension everything from outside the rim rather than using a fiddly spoke key. If you don't already have the hex driver, you might as well get the Squorx nipples and accompanying driver as Torx is a technically superior drive interface.

The Squorx nipples appear to be 15 mm long with no mention of other lengths. Do you need to adjust the calculated spoke length to accommodate the longer nipple?

From the drawing, it seem like the overall length would be 15mm but the start of the thread is in the same place as a common 12mm nipple. That's the case with the Squorx nipples in my DT R24 factory built wheels, I assume they use the same nips in the factory that they sell as parts.

I appreciate that I'm much less likely to round off a torx nipple, but when the 3-4 riders need wheels trued after the same ride it'd be a lot easier without taking 3-4 tyres off.

Also, those hex nipples only seem to come in in aluminium. Not keen on getting more seized nipple problems.

Good idea there. I've used a small electric screwdriver before with great success. I'll have to try to track one down out here.

I like the way you think. I could do sets of three to begin with. Maybe just lace all three, then the electric screwdriver treatment, then tension, etc.

I think I'm going to be dreaming about spokes for weeks.

I appreciate that I'm much less likely to round off a torx nipple, but when the 3-4 riders need wheels trued after the same ride it'd be a lot easier without taking 3-4 tyres off.

They still have normal square flats for truing with the tyre in place, the Torx end is just nicer for initial building.

Also, those hex nipples only seem to come in in aluminium. Not keen on getting more seized nipple problems.

Yeah, I think my brass hex nipples are actually Sapim. They work happily with DT spokes.

Those Sapim brass hex nipples look ace. However, I'm wondering if the advantage drøn mentions - loosing engagement uniformly with each nipple - is worth more than having nice hex engagement.

What this calls for is a hex socket tool with a central prong, so the socket tool gets pushed off the nipple once the spoke nears the end. Then another normal hex socket on a drill with a programmed 360° spin function to ramp all the spokes up evenly...

Keep i simple use normal brass nipples and a 4 sided nipple key never rounded a nipple of with a sapim key. If you get the wheel building hkt right you will never need to take a spoke key to the wheels unless they take a nasty knock. Use a tension meter, dt swiss tensio is the best. Shoot for 1200N ds rear and get tensions even to +/-5%. Do not owrry about turing radially, as if you get the tensions even the wheel will sort it self out. All you will have tl domis true latterally and stress releive. This is the most important part of the build and cannot be done enough. There will a tension drop when stress releiving so raise them when you see that and you should continue until the wheel no longer goes out of true when stressed. Do it right and all will be well.

Also never found the sapim hex driver any quicker than a normal spoke key.

need a bit of advice on some component choice...

for a higher milage commuting (but safe storage both sides) wheelset. want fairly minimal maintenance. prepared to pay for higher end stuff if it makes my commute that bit nicer and easier. (not necessarily faster!)

currently thinking TB14 - dura ace.

my concerns-
extra weight of TB14 opposed to open pro, but maybe more comfort? any noticable difference really?

dura ace not performing so well in the wet? not that knowlegeable on hubs, what would be a nice sealed bearing hubset which will spin well and take higher mileage, without the need to strip and re grease every time it rains?

Fixed or geared? I'd go for sealed hubs and one of the wider mavic rims. Tb14s are nice but they're a little form over function I think.

Go for it, we have a pair in our shop, they look great.

Go for Ultegra, or even 105.

Last night: Laced and tensioned this - Son28, Excellence 36h, Alpine III, brass nipples. Linseed for the threads. Lube for nipples on the left, lube for me on the right. Sherwood at the Controls on the turntable.

Been waiting ages to build this wheel, nice B&M lamps coming from Germany.

Excited!

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Can anyone comment on Spa cycles wheels builds? emailed them for a quote last week but got no reply :/. Also I'm after an 11 speed disc hub, the one shimano do is €100, having trouble finding the novatec alternative online.

Skulls, that sounds like a nice night in!
Which lights are you getting?

Or use DT spokes and nipples... these won't scratch the rim as the square section is shorter.
I use 290 for the front... I have even used 291 occasionally

sorry, should have said. double fixed. low flange preferred.

I'm really not clued up on the best choices out there, will look at some mavic alternatives to the H+S.

Best choice of hubs are those cartridge bearing System EX/Amboriso/etc. bearing last ages, and easy to replaced by a shop if they're shot.

Low flange are not easy to find.

Wider Mavic rims would be A319 (or A119).