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Yeah it's just the whole "I got a £300 part for £30" thing that doesn't add up
It isn't a £300 part for £30. Obviously. But having said that there's a well known brand(ok FSA) that had an integrated bar/stem combo that had a rrp of £300 odd and it transpired that the bars where in fact oem made for them by factories in china. The exact same bars could be bought for £80 without the FSA logos.
So in the "I got a £300 part for £30" the item is never truly worth £300. Much like anything ENVE produce is no where near worth its retail price.Dan dismisses the parts as "cheapo" but how many parts have you bought and used from these chinese factories? Have you tried them out your self and formed you own opinion on them? What makes you so sure the performance is sub par with ENVE?
Given Dans view point on chinese carbon that are one to one copies or approximations of well known items, you're obviously in the wrong thread for discussion. Arguments about "I got a £300 part for £30" have been done to death elsewhere.
TotalShanner-
Do you work for free when you develop your products?meh... post was in response to yours on the previous page.
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But having said that there's a well known brand(ok FSA) that had an integrated bar/stem combo that had a rrp of £300 odd and it transpired that the bars where in fact oem made for them by factories in china. The exact same bars could be bought for £80 without the FSA logos.
It's more about whether you actually do trust the quality and strength of the same bar without the logos.
It's cheap because there's risk involved.
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But having said that there's a well known brand(ok FSA) that had an integrated bar/stem combo that had a rrp of £300 odd and it transpired that the bars where in fact oem made for them by factories in china. The exact same bars could be bought for £80 without the FSA logos.
The difficulty with this argument is whether or not the bars are the 'exact same'. It's easy enough to copy the external shape of some handlebars. A 3D laser scan, or simply a CMM arm will provide you with the external shape, and once you've got that it's straightforward enough to produce a mould using the 3D CAD files. Use that mould to produce a copy and you'll end up with something that looks identical to the original. To be honest, a decent tool-maker with nothing more than a ruler and some vernier calipers could knock something out which would fool anyone who didn't have decent metrology equipment.
However, there's no guarantee whatsoever that the carbon used will be the same. The original layup could use twill, plain weave or UD carbon or any combination of them. If it's twill or plain it could be 1k or 2.5k or 3k. It could be high modulus carbon, like Toray 700, 800 or 1000, or it could be cheaper and less stiff carbon strands. And then there's the orientation of the fibres in the layup, which is critical to both stiffness and strength.
Of course, there's also the resin system. OK, it's probably epoxy, but is it prepreg or resin infusion? Is it an internal bladder system or a solid mandrel set-up? What's the chemistry of the resin and how effective is it at wetting out the carbon and what's the consolidation ratio when it's cured?
You can't tell any of this by looking at it. The bottom line is, you can't tell without a rather expensively-equipped laboratory. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Chinese open mould carbon stuff. I've got a Hong Fu 29er frame which has served me very well, and a Gotobike road frame which has been excellent. I'd have no hesitation buying from either company again, as both seem to be well-established and reputable resellers.
On the other hand, I would be much less inclined to trust a company selling counterfeit knock-offs. A company which bases its business model on copyright infringement is not one I'd want to trust my safety and well-being to.
But, as ever, YMMV.
miro_o
edscoble
Brommers
Yeah it's just the whole "I got a £300 part for £30" thing that doesn't add up - you didn't. You got a £30 part for £30 really didn't you? Same as any other cheap part.