Snowflake wheel

Am thinking that of doing a snowflake spooked wheel on a fakenger bike for nothing more than to continue the hipster price tag I intend to charge. ;)

In all seriousness is the twisted spoke design weak or not as they seem to be differing opinions and was wondering which one was right.

obviously it is weak-er, but it will be fine.

I love what schraner say's about them.

the twisting of spokes, instead of the classic crossing work, is a waste of time for road use. Tests have shown that it results in a very unstable wheel. The lateral stability is about the same as a normally spoked wheel, but, radially, the wheel reacts so sluggishly that encounters with momentary radial overloads (bumps in the road)the highly praised damping effect is delayed.

The exercise is only useful for trial sport, where the bike is momentarily held at a standstill after hard landings and hopping tricks.

Twisted spoking patterns are not only unaesthetic, but are an additional mechanical disadvantage resulting from the extreme angle of the spoke directly at the nipple.

Every serious wheel builder who has ever practiced this kind of spoking pattern has sworn to refrain from repeating the error.

Yet, young bike freaks and mechanics seem to like this kind of spoking pattern. My advice: Leave them at it and the them continue to show their enjoyment and enthusiasm in this way. It's better to see them rolling spokes than rolling joints.

Love it.

BTW, Mr Major, do try and lighten up. I think I understand how you feel. You haven't been in the bike trade long, and it's nice to know more about stuff than some one else, to feel like your opinion really counts for something. I think a lot us have done this, I know I'm guilty. It much more worthwhile just being nice and keeping an open mind. You'll learn more this way, and all the people that you are kind to will be more willing to do you favors (buy you a drink, which I happen to know is the main motivation for a bike mechanic to do anything) in the future.

pwned.

BTW, Mr Major, do try and lighten up. I think I understand how you feel. You haven't been in the bike trade long, and it's nice to know more about stuff than some one else, to feel like your opinion really counts for something. I think a lot us have done this, I know I'm guilty. It much more worthwhile just being nice and keeping an open mind. You'll learn more this way, and all the people that you are kind to will be more willing to do you favors (buy you a drink, which I happen to know is the main motivation for a bike mechanic to do anything) in the future.

That was abit condescending.
The forum isn't the shop.
And that was probably more appropriate as a PM if you really felt the need.

I actually felt I was being fairly tactful about it.
I don't see why I should PM you to save your feelings, I don't know you, and I think it's fairly standard to call people out on the forum when you think they are a bit out of line.

And I think my point was that the forum isn't the shop.

3x for the wind,

This thread has at least one highly productive outcome. :)

Cheers for the responses.

Yeah, thought I'd have heard about it before if it was really the case, since I'm an expert "armchair wheelbuilder".

Snowflake wheels are usually stiffer, for each complete twist (spoke goes where it was supposed to go originally), add 2 mm in spoke length, no more than three mm! Unlike suggested by some i***t, never guess the spokes length!
If you have never done it before, it is easier to use a spokes pattern with two crossings as the base (as opposed to the regular 3-crossing spokes pattern, in which the third crossing will be twisted). This results in a less steep angle of the spokes where they are entering the nipple/rim, which again results in less of a hassle during trueing.
Just twist the spoke that normally goes underneath ist "partner" spoke in the second crossing, go around the other one 180 degrees, and you're set.

If the spokes are double-butted or not doesn't matter. You can't twist anything in 3L3T, so there was some misunderstaning before.

Spokes will naturally be more prone to break generally, and if one fails, the partner spoke will be useless as well.
good luck!

your stars do not hide the fact you called dale an idiot.

Cheers for the responses.

Yeah, thought I'd have heard about it before if it was really the case, since I'm an expert "armchair wheelbuilder".

Snowflake wheels are usually stiffer, for each complete twist (spoke goes where it was supposed to go originally), add 2 mm in spoke length, no more than three mm! Unlike suggested by some i***t, never guess the spokes length!
If you have never done it before, it is easier to use a spokes pattern with two crossings as the base (as opposed to the regular 3-crossing spokes pattern, in which the third crossing will be twisted). This results in a less steep angle of the spokes where they are entering the nipple/rim, which again results in less of a hassle during trueing.
Just twist the spoke that normally goes underneath ist "partner" spoke in the second crossing, go around the other one 180 degrees, and you're set.

If the spokes are double-butted or not doesn't matter. You can't twist anything in 3L3T, so there was some misunderstaning before.

Spokes will naturally be more prone to break generally, and if one fails, the partner spoke will be useless as well.
good luck!

whoops, didn't mean to post twice... nor offend anyone.

your stars do not hide the fact you called dale an idiot.

Well they agree with each other, so would be a weird statement.

add a 2-3mm for a single twist, the one above it double twisted, so 5mm ish

add 2 mm in spoke length, no more than three mm! Unlike suggested by some i***t, never guess the spokes length!

Other than that, it was an insightful post Zitraux :)

I get the impression that, asthetics aside, the twisting is a poor way of getting the tied and soldered effect. Poor because it adds steep bends to the spokes unlike tying and soldering.

Although I remember reading a Sheldon Brown piece discounting the stiffening effect of tying and soldering.

dude, i just guess spoke lengths. personally i'd just use the same ones that came with the wheel.

small fuzza

Yet, young bike freaks and mechanics seem to like this kind of spoking pattern. My advice: Leave them at it and the them continue to show their enjoyment and enthusiasm in this way. It's better to see them rolling spokes than rolling joints.

that´s exactly what I think about it. when getting into wheel building, you always look for new challenges. so why not try complicated looking patterns. for normal city use (I am not talking about racing) the stability of a front wheel is not the most important factor!

First attempt.

1 Attachment

Pls stahp.

5 years ago, 4 years ago, 8 hours ago.

=D you gotta see it through

That is fucking rank

it is Christmas...

When everyone realised the truth, the Lance armstrong thread title was changed from "Lance Armstrong: love him or hate him?" to something like "Lance armstrong: the greatest cunt ever"

Title of this thread should also be changed to something less ambiguous, I feel. Maybe "snowflake wheel: always shit"

Sooooo many haters, twisted spoke wheels rock.

it is Christmas...

It's December the 14th.

12 days of kiss my ass