Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

Today I'm going to build some Campagnolo NR Pista onto Gammas. Many Shiny! So Hipsters! Much Exciting!

Which Mavic and DT Swiss disc rims has brake wall hidden underneath the black anodize? - in particular the XM319, 719, the 485D and 465D?

There's a rim brake version of the XM719, and a rim brake XM317 at the XM319 price point. I wouldn't fancy using rim brakes on any of disc versions.

I had my first experience building with CX ray spokes. My experiences are:

• You need a way of stopping the spokes twisting / winding up. I achieved this with a piece of wood and a slot cut with a hacksaw blade

• Either they stretch more or they come up short as a few of the spokes have threaded into the nipples as far as they can go. As such, I have ever so slightly less tension on my DS spokes as I would like.
  I would recommend you order 2mm less than your spocalc figures suggest.

• $$$

cheap reliable tester approved track fixed/free hubset in 24/28h? Road usage; 66kg; Kinlin XC279 .. bolt on hubs would be a bonus (easy to fit anti-theft measures)

Hubs have come up a few times in the tester approves thread:
https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/244356/?offset=225#10202529

32h seems default for flip-flop hubs, but I find they're a pain to google/eBay for.

I dont mind 32h but kinlin xc279 doesent come in 32h ..

On one track hubs are no-more?

If you use a QR road hub for the front you can stick a locking-skewer through that. Then your lock goes through the rear wheel along with the frame.

Allen key bolts are a bit of a PITA in my experience.

I haven't really answered your question...

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HUOOLF/on-one-large-flangetrack-hub

BLB King hubs - easy to get hold of in 28h and bolt on - bit spendy and ugly logo , and BLB...

And yeah, front hub just use a road hub with a bolt on skewer. cheap and easy.

or actually, cheap - http://www.bricklanebikes.co.uk/blb-track-rear-hub-black

The On One hubs can be found on ebay labelled as Novatec/Joytech. 24h rears exist, not sure about 28h. They have a nice hollow axle.

The BLB hubs are rebranded Formulas I think. Solid axle.

These!

Good, cheap, not posted from Mars.

Rear - http://www.bdopcycling.com/Hubs-A166SB.asp
Front - http://www.bdopcycling.com/Hubs-A165SB.asp

Postage is quick, and I've never been stung for customs charges on orders from BDOP.

On-Ones are fine, but they don't do 28h hubs.

You need a way of stopping the spokes twisting / winding up. I achieved this with a piece of wood and a slot cut with a hacksaw blade

There is a Sapim tool for that, but it's just a bit of plastic with slots in it. It does have the benefit of no splinters and a slot for CX (& DT New Aero, although presumably you're supposed to buy the DT spoke holder for those) on the other side.

Either they stretch more or they come up short as a few of the spokes have threaded into the nipples as far as they can go

The stretch should be the same as Lasers/DT Revs. It will be quite a bit more than Race/Comps at the same tension as the cross section is about 30% less. AFAIK, the DT spoke calculator allows for this, which is why it has a field for spoke type.

The On One hubs can be found on ebay labelled as Novatec/Joytech.

To be precise, Novatec hubs can be found on Planet-X labelled as On-One. Although Novatec are made by Joy Industries, if you find any eBay hubs branded Joytech they are more likely to be Joy's low end hubs with cup and cone bearings.

You can also get them from AliExpress for considerably less:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32-Holes-bicycle-bike-MTB-Road-mountain-Novatec-Hubs-D566SBT/32229894457.html

Those look like the ticket

All true.

I actually bought (from Taiwan via eBay) sealed bearing hubs branded Novatec and advertised as Joytec.

It's a jungle out there.

Yeah I saw the tool but to me seemed a rip off.

I'm annoyed I didn't figure they would stretch more than the race/comps I'm used to. I ought to swap out the 12 DS spokes for 2mm less so I can get those last few kgf of tension, but already so much $$ and not enough energy. Unless anyone fancies 12 x 286mm black cx ray spokes...

The Sapim tool is pretty cack... I have it and the slot is nearly dead and I don't build CX rays very often... I doubt it's seen more than 500 spokes in its lifetime. I bought the DT swiss one, which only works for 0.9-1.1 mm blades and combined with the DT spoke key... it's made of hardened steel and should last a couple of decades... a bit slower to use, but holds the blade nicely, all the way to the thread, rather than just a couple of centimetres far away from the thread like the Sapim one.
A slot in the wood works just as well for a single build... in the long run it will get too loose and you'll need a new one.

CX Ray do stretch a bit, just like Laser, maybe half a millimetre, not enough to screw the calculations, which were probably wrong in the first place

Calcs were correct, I've triple checked, unless I am confusing myself. Would much appreciate if someone would tell me if I am doing something wrong:

Driveside PCD 49.6mm
Non-Driveside PCD 38.5mm
NDS Flange-to-Center 37.6mm
DS Flange-to-Center 16.9mm
Hole Diamter 2.6mm

ERD 597.

24 spokes 2x both sides. I get my results to be:

286.1 DS
290.5 NDS

I rounded down to 286 and 290. The 286 ones are the ones bottoming out, only two of them mind. I mean, its marginal and I could get away with keeping as it is, but it annoys me.

Just seen sapim offer some "HM spoke washers" which would add 1.7mm to my ERD and solve my problems.

http://www.bikehubstore.com/Sapim-Nipple-Washer-Round-PolyAx-p/spw-1.htm

Good idea?

Also, could you post a link to the DT tool you are referring to?

Which rim has a 597 ERD? Which hub are you using?

The DT tool is this one (for Aerolite)... not cheap though... for a single build I'd probably use the block of wood

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/dt-swiss-spoke-holder/rp-prod81460?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_name=UnitedKingdom&gs=1&gclid=CP_UyZihr8ICFXQatAod4goARg&gclsrc=aw.ds

In principle the Sapim washers are a good idea and will solve your problem... but most limey you'd have to use longer nipples, which might bring you back to having the same problem... depending on where the thread starts inside the nipple

Cheers for the link.

The rim is http://www.bikehubstore.com/category-s/210.htm

And the hub http://www.bikehubstore.com/UL190-p/ul190.htm

Why would I need longer nipples? For reference I have 14mm polyax nipples at the moment.

Did you measure the rim yourself or just trusted the numbers?
597 sounds reasonable for a 22 mm deep rim, but it also depends how thick the rim wall is... some measure ERD differently than others.

I really struggle with this obsession for BHS when there is a huge supply of rims round here (if you are in London you can even pick up an Archetype yourself without having to wait for the man on the van