• jv

    @cyclelove good thread I agree about cycle lanes. You only have to visit somewhere with good cycling infrastructure to see what a difference it makes for making cycling inclusive with grannies going to do their shopping and kids going to school.

    Cycle training is not any kind of alternative. I'd like to know if the usual line of its safer riding in the centre of the lane is a real evidence based policy or just someone's theory.

    I'd like to see more work done in the north of the borough of Hackney, green lanes is pretty horrible to cycle on and it would benice to link Finsbury and Clissold parks for cyclists.>

    "Cycle training is not any kind of alternative."

    Have you ever bothered to do the course? If not, then you have no frame of reference. You're like child that wonders in halfway through a movie and....
    Your comment is incredibly ignorant. Most of the children I work with are better riders by the end of the course than the overwhelming majority of adults I see on the commute into school. Most of the woes I see from said adults would be cured by doing the free course but sadly their egos will not allow them to do it. There's a weird mindset with cycling that makes people think they should already be able to do it and if they can't shame and embarrassment stops them from getting further help. [its as simple as riding a bike...]

    I worked with two mothers with young children that were in a bit of a jam: They didn't drive and public transport wasn't amazing where they lived. They had bikes but found Jamaica Rd to be a problem. We did the course and they 'got it'. They understood their rights & responsibilities, how to best to use Rotherhithe roundabout, decision making of when the "magic paint" is of help to hinderance and in turn dealt with 2 notorious left hooks (st James' Rd/Abbey St junctions) and learned about the psychology of sharing the roads. They are now regular cyclists with their kids everywhere. Please do not write off the whole field before you have any kind of a clue about what it is about.


    " I'd like to know if the usual line of its safer riding in the centre of the lane is a real evidence based policy or just someone's theory."

    Maybe fat Dave from the pub made such a postulation....But it is a crude and inaccurate distillation of the principle of bikeability. Heres a scenario:

    You're riding down a narrow residential street with parked cars. First thing is to stay out of the way of potential opening car doors. This may leave you in the middle of the road- by default- but you are simply staying out of the door zone.

    You turn into a much wider road, again with parked cars. Again, you stay out of the way of opening car doors. However the road is wide enough for vehicles to overtake you safely. Who in their right mind would suggest belligerently sitting in the middle of the road? This is an important distinction to make. You only need to stay away from the car door opening zone to be safe but I've heard many use the lazy description you used.

    The only time 'riding in the middle of the road' would/should be suggested would be roadworks narrowing the lane to strictly the width of one vehicle. Then you DO NOT want to invite a chancer to think they can squeeze by, likewise through traffic islands...All of the bikeability kids understand this. The majority of adults do not.

    It strikes me that most grown ups want to be able to ride in a bubble where they do not have to think or interact with fellow road users, where they can listen to tunes, read sms and tweet on the move rather than understand the dynamic nature of our roads. If you really want to tackle to low uptake you need to understand most of what hold folks back is psychological and is based on hearsay, media sensationalist headlines and precious little facts. More end up in A&E from gardening mishaps...yet no ban on secateurs. I imagine fashion is a large part of it. Funny hats and neon yellow. More people seen riding in their everyday garms would help. Better media portrayal i.e. people like Erin O'conner regularly pictured on her bike (not just the Tweed run). Alongside this for Boris to publicly push the bikeability courses.

  • No. Most of what holds people back doesn't seem to be 'psychological'. If you ask people who try cycling and give up, the overwhelming reason appears to be the stress of near misses (this is anecdotal, but there's some formal research ongoing). One can prevent some of these through assertive riding, but one can't control really aggressive drivers, or the incompetent, or inattentive. Cycle training can help somewhat, but in general, the busier the road, the less use it is (because cyclists will encounter higher numbers of vehicles, and more aggressive/incompetent/inattentive drivers - and those drivers will be paying more attention to the motor traffic than to cyclists..).

  • Clear guidelines as to how to overtake properly that are actually enforced.

    Make it financially and morally unacceptable to do a punishment pass.

    Strict liability to ensure sorry mate I did not see you is not a legal defence.

  • chameleon in reply to @MultiGrooves

    No. Most of what holds people back doesn't seem to be 'psychological'. If you ask people who try cycling and give up, the overwhelming reason appears to be the stress of near misses (this is anecdotal, but there's some formal research ongoing). One can prevent some of these through assertive riding, but one can't control really aggressive drivers, or the incompetent, or inattentive. Cycle training can help somewhat, but in general, the busier the road, the less use it is (because cyclists will encounter higher numbers of vehicles, and more aggressive/incompetent/inattentive drivers - and those drivers will be paying more attention to the motor traffic than to cyclists..).

    How many of them did you ask had bothered to take up a free course...anecdotally?

    I'm talking about the many that have never tried cycling because of their perception is that the roads are too crazy or dangerous. That IS psychological. You're wrong. It can control the inattentive/incompetent ones to some degree.

    I also disagree about the busy road thing. Like country roads I fear the residential/quieter roads for inattentive, tailgating bellwipes. In comparison the Euston Rd - despite the sheer number using it- feels like a breeze. There is that much going on it forces your attention. The facts are most incidents happen within a square mile of home due to familiarity breeding contempt.

    It been said that junctions are the most frequent spots for accidents. My year 6s now understand that when passing a junction they're not turning into, to pull away a little. They know by doing this, they force the attention of drivers behind and get into the line of sight of drivers wanting to pull out from the side rd. They know to keep their pedals in motion to psychologically tell fellow road users their intention. They also know to make eye contact with who ever is on the junction wanting to pull out as well with anyone behind. IT gives a strong indication of what may be about to happen.

    Tell me how many adults you see doing this?

    There is so much that can be done by people to control traffic around them if they only empowered themselves....for free. Bikeability will help you make moves out of choice and not ignorance like the guy below:

    Riding home a couple of nights back, I'm taking it easy entering the cut going east. Another cyclist just ahead of me is moving a little more rapid. There are two lanes of traffic in front of us. Several car ahead of us in the left lane turn left. I stay in the centrally on the right to go straight ahead, he decides to dive to left of the left turners whilst he wants to also go straight and quelle surprise almost gets taken out and has a pop at the driver. It's 8pm, pitch black with a cacophony of lights in any of the mirrors the driver may have bothered to check. Common sense says when passing a large junction like this with vehicles having already turned into it, trying to undertake there is maybe not the most sensible course of action.
    A free bikeability lesson could have left him a little more clued up. Instead he'll moan about "that cunt that nearly took him out" to his missus or mates and about how London really needs to change and how terrible it is for cyclists thus spreading the perception.

    An unfair projection on him maybe but given the amount of blank looks I get when telling peeps about the free session and give them leaflets or the classic: "No thanks, I've been doing this for years I know what I'm doing."*

    It was as clear as day how much he'd benefit. It is just as clear from the overwhelming majority of stuff I see how many could and would benefit if only they'd get over themselves. Yes there are some situations where idiots prevail but not as many as I keep reading/hearing about.

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