Ultra Torque Pista Campagnolo Ultratorque Track crank conversion

While we're waiting for Campag to get their act together and migrate Ultra Torque to the Record Pista group, here's a Mirage based hack

Do you have any more info? I have a Mirage crankset i have been looking to use

Edit - just realised the pic is a link - doh

Nice - I have a pair of Truativ Omniums on my track bike and they feel pretty beefy. Also have the Chorus carbon road set for the road bike. I can only see this as the natural progression for the track. Are the Truativ set not legal on the track or something?

BTW - Can you buy replacement bearings for Campag UT cranks anywhere? (planning ahead)

Nice - I have a pair of Truativ Omniums on my track bike and they feel pretty beefy. Also have the Chorus carbon road set for the road bike. I can only see this as the natural progression for the track. Are the Truativ set not legal on the track or something?

BTW - Can you buy replacement bearings for Campag UT cranks anywhere? (planning ahead)

Truvativ/SRAM Omniums are fine for track use, although obviously not NJS! They're not easy to get since Planet-X ran out of the cheap stock they had a year ago, hence the Mirage hack. Total cost of the Mirage cranks + Goldtec ring + Stronglight single bolts + Record UT cups + milling by my local machine shop came to about £120, which is less than anybody is selling new Omniums for even when you can find them in stock.

The Campag UT bearings are available at a reasonable price as a Campag spare part, and at least one of the bicycle bearing shops (Boca Bearings)is doing them now, but they're not a normal common size. That ID/OD combination usually comes in a 7mm width, but the Campag ones are 6mm and you can't fudge the issue. Campag aren't just being wilfully proprietory here, they needed to keep the bearings as thin as possible to maintain the Q-Factor

Truvativ/SRAM Omniums are fine for track use, although obviously not NJS! They're not easy to get since Planet-X ran out of the cheap stock they had a year ago, hence the Mirage hack. Total cost of the Mirage cranks + Goldtec ring + Stronglight single bolts + Record UT cups + milling by my local machine shop came to about £120, which is less than anybody is selling new Omniums for even when you can find them in stock.

The Campag UT bearings are available at a reasonable price as a Campag spare part, and AFAIK at least one of the bicycle bearing shops is doing them now, but they're not a normal common size. That ID/OD combination usually comes in a 7mm width, but the Campag ones are 6mm and you can't fudge the issue. Campag aren't just being wilfully proprietory here, they needed to keep the bearings as thin as possible to maintain the Q-Factor

Re: Omniums - High On Bikes are doing the chainset **and **BB for about £125. Shame I missed out on the PX offer.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Truvativ-Omnium-Track-Single-Speed-Chainset-165mm-BB_W0QQitemZ360153606579

Thanks for the info on the bearings.

Re: Omniums - High On Bikes are doing the chainset **and **BB for about £125. Shame I missed out on the PX offer.

Yes, but I'd have to figure in the cost of a decent chainring on top of that to get the gearing I want, and the black is all but impossible to find. If PX had 175mm black Omniums now at the price I paid for my sister-in-laws set 9 months ago, I'd have got some for myself and waited for the 144mm PCD Goldtec rings to go with them.

While we're waiting for Campag to get their act together and migrate Ultra Torque to the Record Pista group, here's a Mirage based hack

There's no demand for outboard bearing based cranks on the track, maybe because of the increased Q factor ? Not sure what advantages would be gained by changing the Pista cranks to Ultra Torque

There's no demand for outboard bearing based cranks on the track, maybe because of the increased Q factor ? Not sure what advantages would be gained by changing the Pista cranks to Ultra Torque

I don't know about the Campag desgin, but the Q factor on the Truativ chainset is actually the same or reduced than most.
[ame="http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=8486346&postcount=46"]Bike Forums - View Single Post - Anyone riding a Truvativ Omnium Crankset?[/ame]

Had a look at my UT set - 145.5mm Q factor, so 145.5mm - 68mm / 2 = Q-factor of 38.75mm (or 1 1/2")

Advantages? Much stiffer, which is definitely what trackies would want.

There's more to stance width than Q-factor (the width across the pedal eyes). Ultra Torques are 145.5mm, but they're actually narrower at the axle than my 138mm Q-factor square taper cranks. Since your heel has to clear the axle, a narrow Q does you no good if you then have to shift your cleats inboard to provide heel clearance. Given that Pista cranks don't need to clear flared stays or chains heading off towards the dropout face like a road bike, a Campag UT Pista purpose built could easily be made with a Q of 140mm without changing the bearings or axle bosses from the road sets.

I'd imagine stiffness isn't an issue though ? If anyone is going to flex a crank/bb it's going to be Hoy, Bauge, Sireau etc and they're still using traditional bottom brackets and cranks.

Maybe there's less friction on a traditional cup and cone bb ? I'm sure there's a reason, and trackies aren't just being luddites. Look at all the money BC puts into the secret squirrel stuff

Maybe there's less friction on a traditional cup and cone bb ? I'm sure there's a reason, and trackies aren't just being luddites. Look at all the money BC puts into the secret squirrel stuff

Any crank/BB effects are tiny next to aerodynamic improvements, which is where most of the secret squirrel money goes. Lets say you waste 0.1W in crank/BB flex; if you make the assembly twice as stiff, you're only gaining 0.05W. In other words, if you're not actually breaking cranks, the generally satisfactory old school kit is a low priority for development until you're absolutely sure you've wrung every drop out of other areas. I'm sure the SS club have checked this and decided it's a low priority. There is also an issue with the joint between axle and crank - the square taper and Octalink have been proven over hundreds of training sessions to be up to the abuse meted out by big guys doing Kilo starts, but the other connection methods (various kinds of press fit, bonding and splines) have so far only been tested by skinny legged roadies. On top of all that, external bearings are just an interim solution while we are trying to fit 24-30mm axles into frames designed for 15-16mm ones, so there isn't much point spending a lot of time and money proving that they are an improvement when the next generation of frames will have BB30 or similar arrangements. Most of the current high end track frames already have grossly enlarged BB areas, so big holes through the middle of them seems an obvious path forward.

Mega dredge.... Any reason why converting a set of Carbon UT cranks for fixed isn't an awesome idea? I seem to remember someone of here doing the same for SS on a Pompino. I have a set hanging about that have such a low resale value, I'd rather use them on the Touché I just bought.

Any reason why converting a set of Carbon UT cranks for fixed isn't an awesome idea?

Milling crabon, getting short versions of the skinny chainring bolts, sheer sacrilege. Apart from that, no reason at all :-)

It was me. Don't mill the carbon, you'll have to go 3/32" anyway. and don't try to find short bolts, make spacers out of a worn out ring. They will also distribute clamping force.
No sacrilege and easy reconversion. Only problem is the chain line.

Sweet. So what chainline does that give? I'm new to SS/ fixed so I have no clue about how that kind of thing works, but I will probably get a new rear wheel built so I assume it's just a case of finding a hub to match the chain line that setup gives?

Chainline if you use the outer ring position will be about 46mm

you'll have to go 3/32"

Or get a 1/8" ring milled.

Having said that, I'm 3/32": using a TA ring, which reversed happily uses the OE chainring bolts.

And a nine speed chain.

I respaced a Novatech hub and had the rim re-dished.

I'm not sure it would earn a Tstr-tick, but it works for me...

you'll have to go 3/32" anyway>

Why this BTW? Just because of the size of the shoulder the ring has to sit in?

Yes.

I've got one of Tester's OG UTP (alloy) which has been machined to take a 1/8" ring.

You don't want to do that with carbon (obvs), so your options are a) machine the ring, b) get a ring made by Fibrelyte, or c) go 3/32".

When I got some carbon cranks, I was going with a). However once I learned that the use of 1/8" is largely down to tradition and the only practical consideration is being able to swap spares at the track, I stuck with 3/32".

It'a also much easier to find 135 bcd rings in 3/32 than 1/8.
8 speed record rings are nice for fix/ss.

Nice one, cheers guys.

Miche Primato rings were made in 135 bcd and quite easy to come by.

Yeah, but "Miche"...

In 1/8" Goldtech are heavy, but will last until the Apocalypse; Gebhardt are nicer, Hubjub and Sonic have them.

bike24.com have 3/32"×135mm Gebhardt Classics too. Gebhardts are Dural, not Zicral/7075, which explains why they are relatively cheap.

66t? Hmmm...