Ebay Buyer Has my bike, was refunded and kept the bike. Help needed.

Hi guys.

I finally sold my mbk frame and fork, I sold it in around early October.

Beautiful frame n fork.

Around the time it sold, I had an accident on another bike, I was in hospital for a while with injusry and was unable to walk properly or get about.

This delayed the postage on the frame and fork.

I ended up sending it 18 days after the bike sold, I kept saying to the buyer that it was coming I just had to get myself better (getting a box from Halfords and cutting the thing up to fit the frame n forks was a tough one with chest bruising/sternum bruising and not properly walking).

Anyway, as it would happen, 1 day after I posted it to the buyer he was refunded by ebay, despite my emails to him telling him I am sorry for the delay but was ready to send this.

His name is Rohan Godfrey, and he is London based. I won't give to many details out on here but I would really like some help with this.

I don't want revenge, I don't want any thing bad to happen to him, I just want my money re sending or the frame n fork back, its that simple.

It sold for £325 and that is a shit load of money to not care about.

I can understand he is thinking he has a free frame n fork but this is no way to conduct business witha fellow human being. I hate to assume but this is the only assumption I have to go on as it was signed for.

Hey if it isn't him, maybe he can let me know who signed for it, the fact is he is refusing to email me back regarding anything on this.

So that raises alarm bells in my mind.

Does anyone know him? Or has anyone seen this bike rolling around London?

Thanks.

Report to fraud squad/police if he isn't returning calls or anything.

Have you contacted eBay/PayPal? Hope you sent it with a recorded service, then show the proof of delivery to eBay/PayPal

Yeah, I have got onto ebay and they said their fraud team are going to get back to me within 24 hours.
And yes I used CITYLINK and have a signature. So someone signed for it. It was his workplace where it was sent. The signature doesn't relate to his name in anyway so I assume it was a secretary or similar person.

You have his name and address.

If ebay mediation fails, inform him that you will be making a claim against him in the county courts unless he returns the frame or returns the money.

Then file a claim against him in court.

(Read up on the protocols first - they aren't particularly difficult.)

Way I understand it, not all routes of seeking a refund through ebay/paypal (esp paypal) require the buyer to return the goods.

If the seller fails to respond to the opening of a case/dispute the money is refunded regardless of return of goods. I've ended up with a few things for free this way, never to the value here and I wouldn't know about the actual legality of this.

As a warning, I have been through this process before. It isn't difficult and I represented myself throughout the whole process.

However, the court may well find in your favour but, essentially, all you get is a letter stating that he legally owes you the money. It's then still up to you to reclaim it and each step or avenue you try will cost more money.

If it were me, going through the same again, I'd just get the boys together and go round. It'll be quicker, easier, cheaper and you'll have more chance of getting your money or frame back.

It's then still up to you to reclaim it and each step or avenue you try will cost more money.

just get the boys together and go round

You'll have a court order. You can get a writ of enforcement. Go round, seize goods, sell goods, cover costs.

Getting he the boys together is all well and good in gangstaland, but could end in a criminal charge.

I understand the process but county court bailiffs aren't particularly effective and if they have no goods to seize....

I went through the whole process, exploring different avenues for years and it is very, very difficult to reclaim the money. For £350, I probably wouldn't bother and for more, I'd (personally, I'm not recommending it to anyone) use different means.

I was just trying to point out that the small claims route may not yield the expected results, any results or in any reasonable time frame.

Was your experience ebay related?

I do wonder what the legality of all this is and whether buyers and sellers actually have contracts with/obligations to each other or is the contract with ebay and/or paypal?

In both of the cases where I had funds returned to me without any request to return the goods the sellers were given, and seemingly ignored, plenty of chances to state their own case, request the return of the items, offer other solutions like partial refunds etc.

@mrk123 were paypal and ebay not in touch with you by email to say that the buyer had opened an item not received case against you? I can see that your focus may have been to get the frame sent off ASAP but if you neglected to respond to messages from ebay/paypal I think you may have left yourself open to this somewhat.

@mrk123 sorry, that maybe sounds like I am saying it's all your fault which isn't really what I meant. What I meant is that when you request a refund for item not received it doesn't happen overnight so 1) seller didn't hear from you that you'd sent and request a refund in order to intentionally rip you off, and 2) there must have been some communication from ebay/PayPal to inform you the buyer had requested a refund, you've sent the item after this and presumably without informing ebay/PayPal that you have sent the item so who knows where you stand legally.

Frame is gorgeous!

Fucking bad juju. Buyer seems like a twat. Just go and see him. At work. Ask him to kindly pay the money in front of his colleagues / boss / receptionist.

I would personally do what Skully suggests if you know where he works.

If you followed the correct communications with the ebay claims process than this should never have happened. When the buyer opened the case against you, you would have been given a chance to reply. If you had done so and explained your situation then ebay would have waited for you to come up with a resolution between the 2 of you without intervening. For ebay to grant the buyer a refund there must have been a break down in communication. I'm assuming you didn't reply or replied too late?

Maybe he's waiting 18 days before paying you again. That's the sort of childish thing I'd probably do.

Give him a ring at work and chat it through nicely.

I've always found eBay to be excellent provided you escalate the dispute through their resolution centre and adhere to their terms. M_V is correct - the buyer can't just ignore their resolution centre requests and with the proof of sending / delivery that you have I can't see how it won't be favourable for you.

Good luck, unfortunately their are some pricks out there.

Sorting this will only be more difficult because there's no proof the buyer ever received the frame, if he didn't sign for it, no?

I've had stuff dissappear between the post room and myself before and it kind of leaves you in no mans land.

I said this to a friend, I could have just sent a box of cardboard down....

Seriously could have.... I actually sent a beautifully hand crafted Italian frame and fork but who knows for sure. But I did the first thing he would have done is get right on ebay on the resolution center and kick up a fuss.

I hope this isn't going to be one of them cases.

Surely the courier has a responsibility to delivery to the named recipient?

The signature I have does not resemble his actual name in any way at all.

But I have the signature and details of what time it was signed for and the rest.

It was sent to his work address?

By providing his work address for the item to be delivered, I would argue that he is de facto designating his office post room as agent. Their signature is on his behalf.

The courier cant just chip up and get any old chimp to pay for it - may have well have been his mate. I'd be holding them liable to some extent. They have insurance for this type of event.

Most work places sign things in that are recorded and make you sign for its receipt

Agree, the person who signed for it is probably 'known' to the courier. In most businesses its usually the same individual. I'd track back with them

What has the courier or the person that signed got to do with anything?

There was a contract for a sale and money sent in accordance with that contract, the goods were not so the contract was, in effect, broken. A refund was sought and because ebay/PayPal in their role as intermediary agreed that the contract was being broken, the refund was issued. @mrk123 decided to send the goods after the breakdown of the contract and the beginnings of the refund procedure without following the steps that would have been laid out by ebay/PayPal. Furthermore, having been through the procedure myself I know that if the refund was issued the day after the package was sent there had been a sizeable amount of time between the beginnings of the refund procedure and the sending of the parcel, I'd guess around 9 days.

TL:DR, you had a contract with the buyer, you broke it, a refund procedure was begun which would nullify the contract and refund the buyer unless you intervened by contacting ebay/PayPal, you failed to do this and chose to send the goods anyway, at the last minute.