Rapha, nice but a bit pricey?

Wasn't the new PTJ rumoured to be their attempt at a Gabba?

That's so odd it says Jersey and not Jacket?

You suuuuure that's the Jacket!? haha.

This- I think it's supposed to be thinner and more sort of performance-y

Pro team jersey and pro team jacket are entirely different garments.

These are both Pro Team Jackets (despite what the label on the second one says.)

The jersey is wafer thin - pretty sure the difference would be noticeable.

It is. These are definitely both the jacket. (I know my waffa.)

I'm just not sure why they'd change something that was so good in the first place.

I don't want to wear it, discover it's not as good as the previous version and then be unable to return it.

Contact Waffa about it? seemed odd to have a completely different label on.

The 'jersey' label is misleading as they are both Pro-Team jackets. I think my main issue is that the construction of new one isn't the same as the old one (despite being advertised as such on the website - the only difference in the description is the sizing of the new jacket to bring it in line with the rest of the Pro-Team range.)

I'm sure the construction/fabric used in the new jacket is as per the label as it's very different to the old one - it was noticeable immediately - but, as I said, because my initial impression was that the jacket wasn't of as good a quality as the old one, I investigated further.

I'm now left wondering why they'd change it? It's certainly not a version of the Gabba, it just seems like a cheaper (feeling) thinner version of the old PTJ and it seems strange to alter one of the best (and award winning) garments on the market.

You've no idea what it's cost was, what products (existing or planned) it overlapped with (for instance)?

There are many reasons why you might alter a product.

It sound perfect to me, I never use the PTJacket last winter on account for it being way too warm even with just a baselayer underneath.

The change may relate to the new Pro Team Softshell that is being released at the end of the year. A pic of it is in the winter look book.

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James Fairbank posted this on Instagram about the Softshell http://instagram.com/p/ux69vIk13-/

There are many reasons why you might alter a product.

In the end though, it's just the one reason really.

My issue is that, if the jacket is 'new and improved' or has been altered in materials/construction in order to fit other products into the range then why isn't it being advertised as such? It's advertised as being made of polartec fabric and having won awards. To my mind, the previous jacket won the awards, not the new one.

The product page on the website has exactly the same description (including the type of fabric used) and lists all the awards the original jacket won. It's not as if the page hasn't been updated as there is a reference to the new sizing.

Whilst this is possibly considered a minor change (I think a change of fabric which is possibly not Polartec is quite major) it's essentially false advertising. I purchased something and I got a different garment albeit with the same name and purpose.

The cut is very similar, it's designed for riding in the same conditions but has it been improved or has it been changed for other reasons? Too much money to licence Polartec fabric? Cheaper to produce? To accommodate new products?

tl:dr? I've bought an item that is not as advertised.

Also, I'll probably drop Rapha an email later about it to see what they say. Their customer service is usually excellent so I expect I'll get a decent reply. :)

Have you spoken to Rapha about it?

I am composing an email now. :)

I'm pretty sure the product is identical except for the cut. I'm sat here now holding both versions myself. My blue Pro Team Jacket has the correct label in it.

You haven't got one off those Turkish knock offs like @Smallfurry have you?

The mystery deepens!

(Both of mine came direct from Rapha for anyone wondering.)

Isn't it just a move away from "one layer" items? Having a thinner, better cut ptj means you can throw a race cape over it when it rains without it having to be -2 degrees. I love the existing pro team jacket, but its really quite warm when you have a long sleeved b/l underneath.

Does make even more sense when you look at the new softshell. Good they're bringing that out - was always a bit sad never to get my hands on the original thin softshell they made. Regular one is like an oven.

So effectively the new PTJ is just a long sleeve pro team jersey with windproof panels?

I have a RCJLT gilet which would be very similar if so and the rider told me it was Team Sky influenced...maybe this is feedback from the pros saying that the old PTJ was pretty useless in their view (ran too hot...too bulky etc).

Also you can see the new pro team softshell pretty nicely on the front here:

Having worked on all these products, to clear this up for Ichdien and all;

-PTJ and PT Jersey are two different products, and don't share fabrics. The form-fitting PT Jersey is ideal for mild/cool days, or layered with a gilet/jacket in colder/inclement weather.

• The PT Jersey uses a new, better wicking fabric, which has less stretch than the AW13 version. This was in response to performance feedback. Because of less elasticity, it's been refitted ...in order to keep the fit/sizing the same and consistent with the rest of the collection. I have no idea what a 'stronger collar' means on the product page.
  
• The PTJ was the first outerwear product in the Pro Team range and originally was cut on the larger side. As more products have been introduced, the jacket has been recut to be consistent with the PT range.
  
• There is a PT Softshell due for launch, and is a different product to both the PTJ and PT Jersey; High stretch, form-fitting, entirely in a 3-ply breathable membrane with taped seams, rear spray shield, and optimised visibility so ideal for riding in inclement weather.
  
• Ichdien, the RCJ gilets are similar to the versions supplied to Team Sky, sublimated, but non-commercial, and v different to the PTJ. So yes, you could say your gilet is Team Sky influenced (or technically, RCJ influenced Team Sky?) but no, it's not related to the PTJ in any way.
  
  

Hope this is of assistance, feel free to ask any more questions.