Owning your own home

dude you appear to have special needs.

special needs

Perhaps you could buy a playground to throw those insults around in?

#sckbrn

Is this going to be a wet room? The upstairs WC in the place we're buying is bigger than your average WC but it may be a stretch to get a shower unit in there with the dunny and a sink so I was considering a wet room. No idea how pricy it would be or what needs to be done to waterproof an upstairs room.

No you don't all need to renew at the same time but the way to guy we used charged was a fixed price for 1 renewal and then an extra 1 hour charge per extra lessee. The total cost was then divided between the 3 freeholders. This could be attractive to the other freeholders if they don't appear keen as if they renew at a later date as they'll incur the full charge.
A letter from the other freeholders stating that they will not charge you marriage value after completion is not legally binding so you can only go on trust - something that is not easy to do before you've even moved in!

It all depends on what you've got under the floorboards i think. In my case, it's definitely not what I'd call cheap.

It's also a good idea to have underfloor heating with a wet room, otherwise the floor never really dries out.

Is the main reason for having a wet room kinky/messy sex stuff?

But isn't marriage value only applicable to leasehold flats as it's paid to the freeholder, which in the case of share of freehold is effectively me?

The freeholder is either all the flat owners collectively (if the freehold is owned jointly by the lessees personally) or (more commonly) a company owned by all the lessees jointly. Either way, the marriage value wouldn't go to you personally, but to the freeholders collectively or (as the case may be) to the tenant-owned freehold company.

If there's more than 80 years unexpired on your current lease, there's no marriage value to pay anyway though.

Once the lease is renewed, wouldn't all the leaseholders have to pay some marriage value (if it was due) to the freeholders though. Given that the freeholders are also the leaseholders wouldn't it all sort of cancel itself out - i.e. the leasholders pay the freeholders x amount, which is then shared out amongst the freeholders.

If all the lessees renew their leases at the same time then yes, it would largely cancel itself out, although not necessarily - some flats in the building may be more valuable than others and so the marriage value would be larger, and the return of the premiums to the lessees would probably be in equal shares so there may be some discrepancy. But generally if all the lessees are extending their lessees (for example, to give themselves all 999 year leases) then that will be done for no premium or a nominal premium for the reason you give.

However, individual lessees can extend their leases one at a time, in which case a premium will usually be required.

.........

Well, there's two sides to every story.

Didn't think about underfloor heating. I will need to plan it out first really. The bog can't really move away from the external wall without wasting a load of space running the soil pipe round the wall but I suppose I could get a corner crapper and a small corner shower tray.

Bear in mind that not all leases will necessarily have the same years remaining. So if your lease is 60 years and the others 80, your marriage value will be significantly greater.

Most importantly there is no such thing as a share of freehold flat
Freehold itself cannot be shared, which is why lessees belong to holding companies. The company owns the freehold, and you are a director of that company. It's a very confusing and antiquated system!

my mum has a wet room.

We know

jesus christ...it all seems like another phrase set up to fool buyers.

So basically I'm relying on all the other share of freeholders in the block being amenable to me requesting the extension of the lease, which doesn't seem like something I can find out prior to purchase?

Doesn't matter if they agree or not. Subject to a few exceptions, leasehold flat owners have a right to a lease extension under the Leasehold Reform Housing and Urban Development Act 1993. If you're buying a non-extended lease, bear in mind that the best thing to do is to arrange for the vendor to serve the section 42 notice of claim, and to assign the benefit of the notice to you upon sale - otherwise you'll have to wait two years before putting in the notice.

There are some circumstances in which it's better not to go the statutory route but for all the lessees to simply agree to give themselves free lease extensions, but the statutory route is available in pretty much every case.

so, as long as I'm resident for 2 years, even if there's absent or disagreeable tenants then I have a legal right to extend my lease?

Freehold itself cannot be shared

Erm, it can. A freehold estate can be held by up to four people as joint tenants. Section 34(2) of the Law of Property Act 1925. It's unusual to have the freehold owned directly by the lessees - generally speaking you're right in saying that it will be held through a management company - although I have seen a very few cases where it was held directly by the lessees. If there are more than 4 flats then obviously that becomes rather difficult given the limitation imposed by section 34(2).

Essentially yes. How long is the lease? Can you get a mortgage with the current lease length? Have you taken in to account the lease length in the value of the flat? The estate agent will probably try and fob you off by saying it doesn't matter as you can renew yourself for £1 once you own the property - this may not be the case!
Another thing to note is that it is harder to renew your lease if you have owned the property for less than 2 years.
Have you asked the vendor to renew the lease and transfer the title to your name when you become a director of the freehold company after completion? If they refuse question why.
You could also request that the vendor begins the renewal process and you continue after completion.

Yep, pretty much. You don't even have to be resident for two years any more. You just have to have owned the flat (i.e. been registered at the Land Registry as the proprietor of the leasehold estate) for two years. There are various hoops to jump through, and obviously you'll have to pay a premium, but absent or disagreeable co-lessees/landlords can't stop you from exercising that right just by being absent or disagreeable.

The lease is 96 years currently so, though it's not a problem for our lender, it sort of is for me as I think I'll have to renew before I sell, probably in 5 or so years. I have got hold of one of the current directors of the freehold who seems confused that I would even think there could be any issue, which I guess is promising, but I made mistakes buying my current flat so don't want to make them again.

I think I'll just have to talk this through with my solicitor, but thanks for the help. Just one more question, as you seem to know a lot - if the other directors take a dislike to me for whatever reason can they make it expensive for me to renew my underlying lease? Can they decide a charge, which as they're the majority shareholders, I'd have to pay to renew my lease?

Quick q.

Next time I renew my mortgage or whatever (end of fixed) I will be freelance. Earning more money but without 2 years of accounts to prove it.

Some dickhead I spoke to on the phone said it would be a problem/wouldnt be able to get a new mortgage, despite having one for 5 years and never missing a payment. wtf?

Anyone experienced similar? Any solutions?

They can make it more difficult, by refusing to agree the premium to be paid and forcing you to have it determined at the First Tier Tribunal which will cost money. But they can't just make up a charge for you to pay for the lease extension. The premium to be paid for the new lease is defined by the 1993 Act in Schedule 13. If you've got more than 80 years unexpired on the lease, it's likely to be a fairly modest sum, since no marriage value will be payable.

thank you