Patfatenough's build & restoration thread.

lol

''Basically the Merckx Colnago Mexicos (1974-1979) had round superlight main tubes, Sarroni Nuovo Mexicos (1980-1985) crimped top and down tubes, ESA Mexicos (1986-1988) had 6 ribs on main tubes, Zoetemelk Mexico SR/CRs (1985-1986) had a crimped top tube with a 4 rib downtube. FYI: Master with 4 ribs, Tecnos with 5 ribs, Conic with 8 ribs, and Regal (ESA Mexico w/Arabesque lugs) with 6 ribs. The visible difference between 1974-'79 Mexico and 1974-'79 Super is that the Mexico has chainstays that are not crimped at all (round-oval-round). FYI: Masi (round-D-round), De Rosa (round-diamond-round). Note that the timelines are for the USA.

It has been noted that there have been fake Merckx Mexicos which were actually Supers with chainstay crimps being filled in with automotive body filler and repainted. Repainted frames are usually fakes, damaged, or undocumented originals. Always start with the fake frame and let the seller prove it is real or undamaged and that it is not stolen. Most people cannot prove the provenance of their frames or their ownership and as such it is rare to see vintage/classic bicycles at auctions by the major auction houses. "

http://velobase.com/Forum/ThreadView.aspx?t=517

so which part of that iceberg of information is relevant here?

"Sarroni Nuovo Mexicos (1980-1985) crimped top and down tubes"
" The visible difference between 1974-'79 Mexico and 1974-'79 Super is that the Mexico has chainstays that are not crimped at all (round-oval-round)."
there are 3 basic mexicos, mexico, nuovo and esa I have had all three and none had crimped/ribbed chain stays

perhaps a discussion for the brand thread, rather than here would be best

Work away on this thread lads. Quite interested in this conv as you would expect ! I'm gonna put up a few clear photo's of the rear crimping, and other details !

If

"Saronni Nuovo Mexico (1980-1985) crimped top and down tubes"

Is what Pat has

then

the difference between 1974-'79 Mexico and 1974-'79 Super is

therefore irrelevant

Bottom Bracket

Drive side Rear stay

Non drive side Rear Stay

Derailleur Hanger

Top Tube Crimping

Downtube Crimping

Rear Brake Hanger, Only noticed the other day that it's Gipiemme

Fork, Chrome shiner did an excellent job.

you can see the stay crimping on Saronni's Mexico

what more do you need?

Saronni competed on a Nuovo Mexico, and also used the profil type super

that super has 1 tt crimp, 1 dt crimp and stay crimps, look at the dt crimp, and on pat's, it is centered, it appears pats has 1 centered crease
i was going to buy one that had chromed lugs, not sure if i sent pat pics
here is my old nuovo mexico

one tt crimp, 4 on the dt, in the 'corners' of the tube, so the center is concave, if one was to take a slice out of the tube, it would give a clover type profile, look at the center of the dt below, no crease, and the stay inside were rib-less. I sold it to a girl in Finland as a Nuovo Mexico on ebay.

the pages from the circa '83 catalog you posted even state the difference, the super mentions stay ribs, the nuovo none
the only models which had multiple crimps and stay crimps/ribs were the profil and profil cx, add the nuovo mexico and you have the 3 master ancestors
the two remaining Mexico's I have are a 77-79 and an 88 ESA, non have stay crimps
there was alate 60's- early 70'' mexico, a late 70's, a Nuovo with 4 dt crimps, and finally the esa with 6, there is no known mexico with 1 down tube crimp

the easy answer lies with pat, does how many crimps does yer down tube have? 2 or 4?

super center x2

nuovo corners x 4

what more do you need?

succinct

there is an example of the profile model at back of a shop (with a heavey price tag) in leather lane

so what was Saronni's winning bike?

if you have time, read through the link on velobase, the author makes reference to Saronni winning on a Nuovo Mexico, but he probably used the profile super, most un ribbed saronni red supers were pushed out to captitalise on Beppe's success at the time, ribbed would have been pro spec, one i saw had the number tag, where as this un ribbed one i have, doesn't

here's mine with one i sold which had sloping fork crowns, neither had crimps

So he won on the Nuovo Mexico. Why look for a main tube crimped Super? Ray Dobbins' waking dream about crimps on this frame is fiction there's no crimpage.

Pat and Beppe have the same frame. Forks the same. Crimps the same.
A Nuovo Mexico with stay crimps too.

Only x2 Downtube crimps.

No I'm fairly sure Saarf has got this one, although I'm a bit scared to give an opinion on this one as I'm not the most experienced Velominazi.

I think this is a profiled Super from all the information givin above. As Saarf pointed out the Nuovo has got 4 crimps on the down tube like a Master, this pony gots 2.
This is the 1985 PROFIL which could be the descendant of the Profiled Super.

A Nuovo Mexico with stay crimps too

no such model exists

Although:
'' The Nuovo Mexico with anti-vibrant fork is not to be confused with the Profil (1982-1983) which has a main triangle with all tubes crimped with CX fork or the Profil CX (1984-1985) which is the same as Profil but with aero shifter bosses on the top of the down tube. To confuse the matter even further, the old Mexicos were still being delivered into the1980s due to Colnago's notorious delays in filling orders on time or frame sets languishing in bike shops for years before being sold.''

My ST ain't crimped.

Can you guys show me a profiled Super with the same forks as Pat has?

i'm not sure you'd be able to see it given these posts ;-)
this from the super ad you posted

"rears at drop with ribs"
from the nuovo ad you posted, no mean of crimps ar rear drops

Sure, i have a Super with crimped stays. But i want to see a catalogue Super with crimped main tubes. There isn't one. There is however a Nuovo Mexico with crimped main tubes. And Pat's fork.
And that text
"horizontal tube, crosspiece (dt) AND REAR with ribs

Oh I ain't calling it a Nuovo, but I understand where Hillyben is coming from as there is one of two questions un answered, the whole sloping fork crown is a bit ambiguous is all.

My vote is def towards the Profil Super.

which doesn't exist ;)