Road Wheels & Road Wheel Recommendations?

*lol

No you wouldn't. He has a far superior V02 Max, and better efficiency, than you so even on half the training, he'd still out perform you.

By your reasoning, the rider who trains the most wins the Tour, which isn't the case.

Is this thread the obligatory Friday Popcorn?
If so, I'm very disappointed.

baseless arguments thread >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

By your reasoning, the rider who trains the most wins the Tour, which isn't the case.

Except he isn't talking about the tour riders, he's talking about you and me. In fact he specifically stated that.

LFGSS proves that the length of time spent arguing by someone yields no improvement in their ability to conduct rational, evidence based debate.

Can you clarify 'efficiency' for me? I'm not sure if that's relevant / a solely genetic trait.

In this example, where we are both going from a zero-training level of fitness, I don't think you're in a position to be certain that Tony Martin's VO2 Max improvement would outstrip mine. If I grant that it would, for arguments sake, would that alone ensure that he would beat me, considering the improvements in my musculature etc etc that my 2X training has provided?

I think you're oversimplifying my argument here. I'm not saying training is the only thing that matters, I'm saying it's more important than anything else. In TDF-level cyclists, they are all performing roughly equivalent amounts of training*. At that level, tactical riding, team support, form, aerodynamics and, yes, genetic talents and traits, will have an important and measurable effect on the outcome of races.

*You would hope.

@Sumo

What's the difference? Each of the 198 riders of the TdF has a different genetic makeup - As do all of us mere mortals.

For fear that this thread is derailing I will ask what I should know but don't:

Which wheels for my winter roadbike/light tourer?

I bought a Tokyo Fixed Wide Open in Kinokos closing sale, I will be building it primarily from spares but that still means it'll be fairly nice (Mix of Veloce, Chorus and Record) durable yet light components. Only thing I don't have is a wheelset. I also have very little experience with roadie stuff.

Requirements:

1. Campy freehub
   
2. Components that will put up with primarily being ridden in the wet,
   cobbles/tracks/paths very likely, too.
   
3. Light, despite the intended use I am only 60kg on a bad month, and
   can't see me carrying much weight on the pannier.
   
4. Black
   
5. Sub £500 (not inc. tyres, cass, etc. which I already have)
   
   

I was originally looking at factory builds, primarily from Campag or Mavic, but I have access to a full workshop and have built wheels before, factory wheelsets don't seem massively good value... so if it's better value to build, I will.

Suggestions?

What's the difference? Each of the 198 riders of the TdF has a different genetic makeup - As do all of us mere mortals.

The difference is, when you're at that top level, genetics will play the deciding roll. Wether that's physical make up or just a head for tactics and cunning.

For people like us, genetics won't play nearly as much of a roll as more training would.

My best alloy rim in the world built by the best in London rear wheel should soon get a fitting front wheel.

I can recommend you the same thing that I got (but in Campag) .. Novatec (order directly from bdop cycling) on Kinlin XR200 (for uber light) or XC279 (for wide and light-ish) with CX rays; they are sealed hubs so will be fine with wet usage. Most defo cheaper than £500. Rims can be acquired from here: http://spokesmanwheels.co.uk/

Or one of those DIY wheel kits: http://www.bdopcycling.com/DIY%20Alloy%20Wheels%2020-24.asp

Even cheaper.

If I feel that I can not get back to Mavic Open Pro in winter from wide rims this summer you can have these, ceramic as well on Hope.

Amey's on the right lines there I think. I was going to say Archetypes, but I remember someone saying they have poor braking performance in the wet? That might have had something to do with the coating on the brake track though...

Cx rays on a winter/touring wheelset?

He is 60kg .. and given his budget there has to be at least one flash component ..

CX Rays are boss-strong.

I was looking at Hope Pro3 x OpenPro, but as much as I adore Hope for polo and mtb, I can't see me getting on with the freehub on a bike for riding relaxed through quiet lanes. There's not much about longevity of Campag Record hubs in abuse scenario or I'd probably stretch to them....

If its Hope you are after buy @jammy 's: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121427399142

It's a while since I bigged up my Harry Rowland-built Ambrosio Excellight on Novatec hubs. Somewhere between the SRAM Force/Swissstop caliper and the Ambrosio "TQB" machined rim is the smoothest, bestest braking performance I've ever experienced. (I haven't ridden many bikes...) I don't know how this compares to a similar Open Pro build but I'd happily recommend as a Winter wheelset.

Lol @ that argument.

FYI Morgan, the gene argument is not just an anecdote in a book. It's science (you CAN explain that... Etc).

[citation needed]

For people like us, genetics won't play nearly as much of a roll as more training would.

This is not my understanding at all. Genetics apply to everyone. Pros sit at the extreme end of a spectrum, but we all sit in that spectrum somewhere. We are talking about cyclists with some training to allow genetic traits valuable to cycling to show themselves. Can you let us know why you think this?

This is a fun argument.

Also I'm in the "genetics" camp

Also I'm in the "genetics" camp

Sounds rough.

#holocaustjokesarelol

The übermensch isn't going to breed itself you know

You are well übermensch Tom.