ISIS / IS / ISIL / The Islamic State

I think two separate issues are at risk of being run together in debates such as this. One is the entirely reasonable view that there are motives and powers that politicians don't want you to know about. Another is the view that politicians have godlike capabilities to control the media and the public debate. Accepting the first does not lend any credibility whatsoever to theories that would require accepting the second. Similarly, it is one thing to say that the jihadists have edited the video and another thing to say that it's a stunt pulled out by the US. The first statement is a form of reasonable skepticism; the second one is a form of tinfoiled conspiracymongering. It is simply disingenuous to try to lump them together under some vague umbrella term such as 'media management'.

If our respective security services don't have the capacity to put out a badly edited home video in the style of an Islamic terror group on youtube I'm deeply worried.

Yes, and now they are controlling the minds of said Islamic terror group with magnets so that they won't come out and say that, hey, in fact we did not kill Foley.

I definitely get your points about stability and unified = better returns on the weighty energy and infrastructure investments and I didn't explicitly say anyone was allowing IS to do anything. More taking advantage of an unstable situ maybe. Also like you alluded to, long term KRG isn't really operating for a unified Iraq in anything but name.

I get what you're saying and I didn't mean to overstate the influence on the ground of arms manufacturers but their CEOs do get flown around the region in the PMs plane for some reason. Just sayin

We give countries in the Gulf big loans with which to buy arms from our manufacturers, meaning we get jobs and export earnings and interest on the loans. In return we extend defence commitments to them. That's why the arms firms chiefs get to sit in the PM's plane.

I think this thread is a great tribute to ISIS and how they have gone about marketing themselves. In a short space of a time this small organisation has already gained larger media attention than al-Qaeda. Even after flying planes into skyscrapers (allegedly), there is no al-Qaeda thread.

I always thought their policy of absolute refusal of any media contact was a fundamental mistake. As the US military slowly killed original members it was seemingly very hard for new members to join and replace them.

We have been assured; "Islam is the religion of peace" ! You've all heard the protests of outrage by their religious leaders in the UK and across the world ?! No need to worry.......

Oh hai EdwardZ

Not nearly enough links or words to be EdZzzzzzz.

I think he's just got lost on his way to the Daily Mail comments section?

Ignore them user47701 (crazy user name, crazy guy!)

Yours was the best first post I've ever seen here.

We give key regional players in the Syrian civil war big loans with which to buy arms from our manufacturers, meaning we get jobs and export earnings, interest on the loans and a way to offset all the petro dollars we spill on them each year. In return we give them diplomatic cover for suppressing their citizens, and lots of other ways to squander their resources. That's why the arms firms chiefs get to sit in the PM's plane.

Ftfy

It's been a blast

Yeah, the Gulf states are pretty ugly. What's your point?

So can I use a shimano bb tool on ISIS?

sorry, wrong thread.

If it's a shimano brand ISIS tool.

Or a shop could do it for you for £25 or more.

£25! Ridiculous. Have they not thought of becoming a coffee shop instead? Or a Caliphate? That sells coffee?

I'm finding the recent developments in Syria, Iraq and the so-called Islamic State (does that now include the UK?) really, REALLY terrifying, depressing and upsetting - journalists being beheaded - wtf + ffs! That's such heinous, evil stuff. Hearing how men and women who grew up in the UK are being 'radicalised' AKA brainwashed and carrying out these atrocious acts is mind-boggling.

All this, together with the situation in Gaza and Ukraine, and the celebrity sex abuse revelations of recent years, environmental concerns, plus so much else besides, almost makes me despair for the human race. I see my friends' babies and wonder what kind of world they're inheriting. It's the thing that frightens me most about having my own kids.

Of course the world has never been an entirely stable or safe place, and I realise how privileged I am to live in relative security and comfort in a developed country, so my ability to empathise/understand is limited, but still, bad news weighs heavily on my mind and I wish there was more I could do about it :(

Sorry to sound so pessimistic - worrying about my friend's anorexic daughter who is still missing after a week doesn't make the world seem any rosier at the moment.

@Miss_Mouse You forgot ebola.
I totally get what you mean though - everything seems to be falling to shit at the moment. The thing to bare in mind is that there is always some turmoil or potential threat from X or Y but generally, we live in pretty peaceful and stable times.
The news is basically whipping people in to a frenzy and it is a bit scary what with all the London yoofs going over there and murdering strangers but its a small number of particularly pissed-off young, pretty much exclusively males. Its an old formula.
What is getting me down, though, is hearing quite openly xenophobic comments from a lot of people. We need some unity and shit.

Tl;dr: don't get too down about it.

All this, together with the situation in Gaza and Ukraine, and the celebrity sex abuse revelations of recent years, environmental concerns, plus so much else besides, almost makes me despair for the human race. I see my friends' babies and wonder what kind of world they're inheriting.

My mother felt exactly the same thing given a backdrop of the Soviet flavour of Afghan conflict, nuclear weapons, over-population, the Troubles in NI and all the top things-to-worry-about of the day. I think it's probably something every generation feels. Ug the Caveman probably thought the next generation was doomed given the over-hunting of woolly mammoths and the genocide of Neanderthals.

I imagine that the next generation will do pretty much as well and as badly as us. Which is to say that by and large they'll make a total bollocks of it.

Would rep.

You're right @danstuff - these horrible events do come and go, as do personal ones. If you're going through a shit time, the chances are, the rest of the world isn't going to seem very rosy either.

A couple of telling quotes in this really good piece;

"I remember about a year ago talking to a senior Iraqi politician, and who said look: the army’s going to collapse if it’s attacked. I said surely some will fight, he said: no no no, you don’t understand. These officers are not soldiers, they’re investors!"

"Of course, what they will do, I think, is have covert relations with the Assad government. In fact, I’m told they already do–not to do a public U-turn but have a sort of an understanding with them, as to some degree happened in Iraq after 2003… Iraqis always used to say that Iran and the US wave their fists at each other over the table, but they sort of shake hands under the table."

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/29/the-rise-of-isis-and-the-origins-of-the-new-middle-east-war/

^ That's a transcript from this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqfXm5a4NJI

Patrick Cockburn is brilliant. Total stalwart.

^haven't watched the vid but endless rep for Patrice Cockburn