ISIS / IS / ISIL / The Islamic State

I think there was a certain time window during which it was possible to appear smart and knowledgeable by seeing a Western conspiracy in every single atrocity that took place in the Middle East. With ISIS, that time window has well and truly closed. It is very difficult to say when a military action is justified; still I must say I am pleased to see the European countries getting involved in the fight against this lot.

Sorry I missed that this thread had escalated quickly.

I had an epiphany on the overground about how to stop kids from here joining groups like ISIS.

Bring back EMA.

That the maintenance thing for doing A-Levels? I was already out of education by the time that came about, but I don't understand why they got rid of it. Probably because poor 18 year olds don't tend to vote tory...

The lyrics on this are ABSOLUTE DYNAMITE. It sums up everything. I find it particularly telling that this album was pulled from the shelves due to it's content that the US government didn't like and led to Eugine being "monitored":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bXCJVEOF-E&index=3&list=RDxFNzifsV9KM
&v=4bXCJVEOF-E

lol

Gap year students are dicks wherever they go.

Ver complex situation covered by a wank thread.

No real mention of the regional players who loaded up after vacuum left by US. Turk, Qat, Saud, Kuwaiti billionaires. Iran, Iraq, Russia. The evolution of this involvement is why we are where we are today.

Disintegration of state power in swathes of Iraq and Syria key to all this.

Only so many of those fighting in Northern Iraq are die hard IS. There is essentially a Sunni uprising going on and IS just happens to be far better at twitter than the ex-Baathist officers. I'm not against it per se but bombing IS frontier units will not end this uprising. Only the most inept and dodgy political class in history can do that.

Someone mentioned IS is full of impressionable dimwits - Every army is full of them. They wouldn't operate without them, ready to absorb racist rhetoric and kill on demand.

This specific group has a very obvious lineage back to the Iraq war.

Kurds, Kurdish/US relationship, Kurdish/Turkish peace deal. All mega important.

Calling a violent group by the name that it calls itself is not endorsing that groups aspirations.

After dogs dinner of Iraq war 2003 and the total failure to roll out N.A.C type state, do US war gamers prefer a Levant that is cantonised and easily managed? Why was IS allowed to flourish so unimpeded, Why no noise when Ramadi and Fallujah went? Just a thought.

The US is not puppet master of IS. However! BIG US arms companies are LOVING selling billions of dollars of weapons which will be used to destroy the captured weapons they sold last time. Those companies are heavily subsidized by the US government and have a very acute revolving door situation going on on Capitol Hill. Like a lot of this stuff it is systemically toxic, not necessarily some big 'behind the curtain' lie.

Someone asked why would the US fake the video? I'm not saying I believe it is faked but this is the fucking Middle East guys, lots at stake, bad mother-fucking place, fit ups, smoke screens, back channels, that's the norm.

I'm gonna agree with you because you have two trispokks

I hate all the talk of conspiracies. Not matter how big, govts are just made up of fallible people - they are not capable of half the things people seem to think.

It's a version of the Emperor's new clothes to point at everything and say, "Conspiracy, innit." and think, "I'm smarter than everyone else because I can see it's a conspiracy and they can't."

On a different note, am I turning too Daily Mail to want them to name Foley's murderer so newspapers can go to his house, his friends, his mosque and ask, "what exactly did you do to stop this?"

It's a version of the Emperor's new clothes to point at everything and say, "Conspiracy, innit." and think, "I'm smarter than everyone else because I can see it's a conspiracy and they can't."

Well said. By which I mean, well said.

But on your last point, are you saying you want such a confrontation to happen? I think it would be a very bad idea to start naming the families of those involved. You'll get mosques being attacked by EDL etc, like we did after Rigby's murder.

I'm going to be working at the NATO Summit so if anyone has some ideas on how to sort this IS problem out; just make a list and I'll get them right on it. With the forum's help they should have it all sorted by the 5th September.

I know.

Speaking franky I'm miserable conceding that "the terrorists have won" and they've made me more right-wing than I used to be.

I agree that the rise of the EDL is a likely consequence, and I don't want that at all.

It's just (and this is not rascist - it's the same for all colours and creeds) we seem to be constantly picking up the pieces after the actions of stupid young men without the wherewithall to succeed in normal society who have to result to some bullshit - be that religion/football/nationalism- to blame for their failing instead of their feckless lazy fuctardery - and I think their parents need to bear some of the responsibility.

Just to point out.. I have similar concerns with Kosha food too.

I'm not saying...but...

That's the beauty of conspiracy theories, isn't it? A lot of things happen and some theories can be supported with anecdotes and general handwaving. All the better if it's coupled with some reasonable points about politics and how everything is very complicated.

Surely the dichotomy here is between liberalism versus totalitarianism rather than, say, capitalism versus totalitarianism?

^^ Yes, that kind of reasoning is unfalsifiable, and amounts to little more than the stirring up of paranoia.

Except what you actually said was that Muslims are inferior to you (because of their food choices).

So are you saying that Jews are also inferior?

I wonder where I've heard that belief expressed before?

Religiously prepared food thread >>>>>>>>>>>

kosher.

Don't know if any of the people posting have watched the footage.
It shows a man being murdered in a similar method used in the hala process.

It's going to take more than a cartoon to come back from this comment, Tommy. What people eat, and how they choose to prepare it, is a bit of a red herring here. Nothing against people who eat fish, obvs.

Who is winning so far?

I was just saying videos get faked. Syrian civil war has been awash with info warfare, hoaxing and faking stuff. I tried not to endorse any conspiracy theories.

I grew up to all that shit. Heavy Indoctrination and all. Used to lap it all up too. I find it all quite amusing these days. Wild and sweeping assumptions/speculation.
I see it like this these days. If you're a prick, you'll find your calling somewhere be it a savage, power hungry policeman, or a savage, violence hungry fundamentalist.

Funny how history is swiftly forgotten. This has all happened and will happen again, just under different players/guise.

My two pennies. I'm out.

So are you saying that Jews are also inferior?

Exactly.. sometimes I think your the only one who understands me.