Is it time to start calling out bad cyclists?

I ascribe more responsibility on him (than the average person) because of his position as CTC president.

It's the reverse of people taking extra delight/schadenfreude when Superintendents (or other senior Police figures) or Judges get done for speeding.

who exactly is he responsible for? other than himself of course.

why? does jon snow or the CTC represent you? or anyone for that matter?

Well yes, the CTC do represent a large number of people.

I know you have your collective responsibility gong to bang but I think it is misplaced in this case.

i'll bear that in mind if ever i sign up to the CTC.

who exactly is he responsible for? other than himself of course.

And here's the point.

People (to generalise) often make judgements upon people based on stereotypes. You may not, but that doesn't mean that many people don't.

You may believe that collective responsibility is bollocks, but every single time I hear "you fucking cyclists are all the fucking same, jumping red lights and riding with no lights" I believe it does exist in many people's heads.

Racism, sexism, etc. are base on that notion, no reason why people wouldn't make generalisation base on cyclist stereotypes.

Except drivers, for some reason, miraculously escape this.

That's collective blame, not collective responsibility.

Furthermore, it's likely post hoc justification of pre-existing prejudice.

It's a logical fallacy mind-shart.

Christ on a bike! does every single calling out of bad cycling have to descend into a collective responsibility wank-off?

The man is essentially "head of really sensible cyclists". Is it that much of a leap that his responsibility as a figurehead might extend to behaving respectfully whilst cycling in a public place?

And here's the point.
People (to generalise) often make judgements upon people based on stereotypes. You may not, but that doesn't mean that many people don't.
You may believe that collective responsibility is bollocks, but every single time I hear "you fucking cyclists are all the fucking same, jumping red lights and riding with no lights" I believe it does exist in many people's heads.

It is a FACT of human nature (for a lot of people). Until greenhell tells us his secret knowledge as to how that limited form of thinking is eradicated then collective responsibility IS NOT bollocks. It aint fair or logical but it exists.

Christ on a bike! does every single calling out of bad cycling have to descend into a collective responsibility wank-off?

The man is essentially "head of really sensible cyclists". Is it that much of a leap that his responsibility as a figurehead might extend to behaving respectfully whilst cycling in a public place?

^What does respectful cycling mean? If it was a quiet ped light with no one crossing a few other road users around, what does it matter?

Snow in fact has particular responsibility. Why would organisations like this choose 'celebrity' figureheads other than as a kind of public ambassador? If he can't behave himself what's the point of him?

A guy on a white Look just cycling like an idiot past Covent Garden.
Quite literally all the gear and no idea.
Over taking a taxi and then cutting in and turning left immediately after, tutting behind me like I should go faster when I was travelling the speed of the traffic through a pinch point.
If you're on here, I can see you think you're cool but you're not.

i'm not denying collective punishment exists (as engendered by collective responsibility), i just refuse to have any part of it, regardless of what side of the wheel i find myself on. you preach and walk that flawed fucking line of you want, i'm out.

Isn't John snow jumping reds perfect for a representative of cyclists?

^ha.

#ghostrep

He hasn't even got a beard, he's the worst person to represent the CTC EVER.

Agreed. Get Brian Blessed's agent on the phone

Christ on a bike! does every single calling out of bad cycling have to descend into a collective responsibility wank-off?

Sadly, it would appear so, yes. Same tired arguments, same shouty agressiveness. Plus ca change...

same passive aggressive non-contributions from whiners with fuck all to say.

Dan's were some of the more interesting, non-whining posts, he just didn't agree with you.

here in Italy, it makes no difference what you do, it's dog eat dog, quite tribal. Some drivers will try and kill you, some will congratulate you on your ride, all will expect you to disobey whatever rules you feel like, and you expect the same from them. Puts all this into perspective. Despite it being more dangerous here, I get much less angry at drivers' behaviour, because I know there's nothing I can do about it, I just need to assume there's a maniac round every corner. London will seem like heaven after this! (not the landscape and the descents, of course...)

Racism, sexism, etc. are base on that notion, no reason why people wouldn't make generalisation base on cyclist stereotypes. Except drivers, for some reason, miraculously escape this.

Except for taxi drivers, addison lee drivers, white van men, lorry drivers, bus drivers, bmw drivers and so forth. As driving is considered the norm, users of specific types of vehicle become an outgroup and get their own stereotype.

That's collective blame, not collective responsibility.

Sure, but if you split the two (blame and responsibility) then there are no tangible examples of what collective responsibility is, it just is.

It's the stereotypes that are used in the collective blaming that define the collectives that should be responsible. Everyone has individual responsibilities (and, in many cases, legal duties) but it's the lumping together by man that makes that into a collective responsibility.

If everyone said "fucking cunts on bikes jumping red lights" or "fucking morons driving whilst texting" I'd be happy as they would have disassociated the inappropriate action from the wider collective.

Anyway, cycle commuters of the New King's Road, if you're pulling out from between cars to filter on the outside of traffic it's advisable to look right before doing so. The majority of the blame does not go to the scooter rider now trying to extract his front wheel from your rear wheel. When you looked at me for moral support I was only ever going to reply with "What did you expect? You didn't bother looking."

Jon Snow represents the CTC.

Maybe that means he has a responsibility to be seems to cycle like a saint, maybe it doesn't.

What it certainly doesn't mean is that he represents cycling or cyclists in general. Most activists can't seemingly represent themselves without getting into a pissy lather about one thing or another.

If danstuff's post is obliquely referring to greenhell, it's passive aggressive and weasily, which is what I infer to be greenhell's point.

some days i wake up and wish TW was my real dad.

It's the stereotypes that are used in the collective blaming that define the collectives that should be responsible. Everyone has individual responsibilities (and, in many cases, legal duties) but it's the lumping together by man that makes that into a collective responsibility.

As someone that cycles, then, what are my responsibilities towards you - another person that cycles?

I mean, I will enrage some drivers just by existing on a bicycle. By being a part of the gestalt urban peloton, I am causing some poor schmuck to be bipped and driven at.

And if I take primary, then woe fucking betide thebpoor sod later in the day that gets driven to the curb because they should be taught a lesson.

Whom do I pay compensation to? I should probably sell my bike for funds and hang up my Sidis.