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• #27
IAmNotARobot, I think my main point is about air time, publicity. The EDL are on the news more and more, and this helps them to grow. People who feel angry and want an outlet for their frustrations latch onto a group like the EDL and their anger seems, to them, more justified because it is shared by that group.
You are right that everyone knows they do not represent the whole. But sometimes we need to state the obvious. When the news report tells us the EDL are violently protesting against the woolwich murder, this over shadows the efforts of others to promote a peaceful reaction. So the peaceful reaction needs to be louder. They are growing, we need to make them look small.
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• #28
Probably dealing with the delusional front pages might help.
Exactly this. I want a peaceful protest on the front page.
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• #29
The EDL are on the news more and more, and this helps them to grow.
Does it? Every time I've seen them on the news they've come across as ignorant idiots. ie. nazi salutes in front of war memorials, the raygun guy, etc.
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• #30
Because you are an intelligent, well informed, level headed person, it seems obvious to you. I think there are many people who feel angry and can be persuaded to join a fight.
Groups like the EDL also encourage violent, extremist Islam. Their publicity causes young muslims to associate white Britain with violence and intolerance. We can help prevent this association being made by getting more shows of solidarity and tolerance from the white secular and christian population on the news.
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• #31
Everyones A Little Bit Racist - YouTube
I am not against confronting EDL.. I had a childhood of living with NF and BM two recessions ago (early 80s) alot of my white friends were brainwashed with the idea that Britain had become diluted with foreign ways. What you can't do however is moderate everyone's opinion.. the EDL regularly come to London and my local mosque (Central Mosque) to rally, as westminster get the barriers out.. it's quite quaint really wearing their Leeds football kit.. in time you just ignore them.. I seriously don't see them as a threat, as lame as our government is, i also think London is more united than divided these days, I can't answer for the rest of the country though...
Al
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• #32
Unite against fascism counter demo anything the EDL does.
UAF is even more wack then the EDL. Behind UAF are quite a few groups that are express Holocaust-revisionisism and condone, if not support, hate crimes against Jews. Ken Livingstone is just their poster boy--- not that he's untainted by Jewish stereotyping if not a wee bit of instrumentalized antisemitism (gets votes, just ask Nick Griffin and George Galloway ). UAF's joint secretaries are Weyman Bennett and Sabby Dhalu with Azad Ali as vice chair. Azad Ali is not just an Islamic fundamentalist, al-Awlaki fan-boy and anti-democrat (“Democracy, if it means at the expense of not implementing the sharia, of course no-one agrees with that.”) but deep set Jew hater and supporter on a number of groups whose roots are shared with the NSDAP (German Nazi Party). I guess they'd argue that Hitler was an anti-Fascist.. Its creeps like the UAF that spin the EDL.. Its funny since guys like Ali, I'm sure, would have been a fan of the BUF...
Nothing like going to a peace and AntiFa demo hearing cries “Itbah Al-Yahud” and ‘Khaibar, Khaibar ya Yahud…"
Sure a lot of well meaning people show up to UAF demos.. -
• #33
i said my local mosque. like i pray there or own it.. LOL.
I'm not even muslim, ffs -
• #34
Wow, EdwardZ, that's depressing stuff. As I said I have never got involved in anything like this before and am looking for advice. The main problem is that people just love to be Right about things, there is so much anger under the surface.
"Sure a lot of well meaning people show up to UAF demos.."
I'm hoping this is the case, I don't know where else to go.
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• #35
William, you'll be right at home amongst the UAF lot, regardless of any suspicion of wrongdoing behind the scenes (which I would fact-check if I were you)
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• #36
UAF is even more wack then the EDL. Behind UAF are quite a few groups that are express Holocaust-revisionisism and condone, .
From what I have seen, Jewish anti-zionist groups also support the ideas of massive revisionism (?) of the generally accepted holocaust details. Without getting into too much of a derail, they reckon the zionists actually caused the holocaust and are enemies of jews.
But I do agree about the suspect-ness of some of these groups that tend to unite to protest against things like wars or fascism. Stop the war coalltion and Respect party used to have LOADS of highly anti Semitic stuff on their website. Also not too keen on that communist collective either.
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• #37
Azad Ali is not just an Islamic fundamentalist, al-Awlaki fan-boy and anti-democrat (“Democracy, if it means at the expense of not implementing the sharia, of course no-one agrees with that.”) but deep set Jew hater and supporter on a number of groups whose roots are shared with the NSDAP (German Nazi Party)
Two of the speakers at the vigil were jewish, one was a UAF spokesman, one was a local holocaust survivor. Present at the vigil were groups of both orthodox and more secular jewish people. There are bad eggs in a every organisation, I'm prepared to give the UAF the benefit of the doubt. Needless to say the woolwich murders and radical Islam in general were condemned in the strongest possible terms by a number of the speakers.
Wiganwill pointed out that the building was not a mosque, and I changed the OP. A spokesman for the Centre said "this place was a school, a social club, a mosque, and a place for everyone". I guess now we know.
I will be going to more UAF events, I think. It was a very positive experience, and clearly very important for the morale of the community, and probably bad for the morale of all those arseholes trying to stir up division. There were TV cameras present and I hope the event gets some coverage. I dont know as I dont have a TV.
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• #38
...I dont have a TV.
I don't even have books.
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• #39
EEI posted this on the fail thread:
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/fascists-attacked-a-music-festival-in-tottenham-on-saturday
and it scares the shit out of me. I'm worried people like UKIP will use it as an excuse for further bigoted 'send them home' rhetoric. The natural result of this kind of thing is to tar all those who share a nationality with the purpetrators with the same brush. I've seen comments about 'polish people' on social media. There is a problem with nazism in Poland. There is also a problem with bigotry here.
I hope these violent cunts get dealt with properly by the law, I also hope it doesn't descend into race war.
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• #40
There was a protest about this in Markfield Park this afternoon (organised by local left-wing groups as opposed to British right-wingers), shame I wasn't about.
It was so disappointing to read about it, having worked in an FE college in Tottenham I've seen the best of what immigration has brought the area reflected in both the students and the staff, it's a shame when mindless cunts like this threaten to tear it apart.
And that's why I don't go to UAF events, as much as chanting and kettles are, in the end you are shouting at a crowd of people who are deeply racist, some of them neo-nazis. I doubt they are going to want to go "yeah, you know, these guys are right, when's the next bus home?".
While there is a minority who go to these events, its better to talk about and challenge the rampant racism that the EDL is allowing to be expressed, in everyday life as much as in these demonstrations.
The organisations best placed for this? No idea, recommend electoral reform society. PR would make people take the far right more seriously. Probably dealing with the delusional front pages might help.
Its not a dig at UAF, I'm all for vocal shows of solidarity, but that wont change things other than bringing like minded people together to move forward.