A.E.Elsegood

Afternoon all, apologies if this reads awfully, my writing skills are seemingly awful

Anyway.

This is my 1950's A.E.Elsegood 'Minster' from York.

I have an unnerving habit of buying old British clubman bikes, riding them for a while and then moving them on. I had a 47 Raleigh Clubman that after a lot of soul searching I sold as I felt it was too small for me. I've always regretted it (even though it was too small for me!) so I decided to find a frame that I could turn into a 'bike for life'.

I found the Minster on eBay going cheap so I thought I’d have a punt and see what it got me. The frame had a decidedly ropey 70's paint job, in green and orange, decals that no-one was ever going to stock and some pretty aggressive rust on the BB shell and down tube.

As I researched Arnold Elsegood (he's fourth from the right in the green coat in the photo) and tried to find out his bikes, this one really grew on me as I realised that there weren’t many of them left and that it would be practically a crime not to try and save it. Malcolm from York Wednesday Wheelers was a real Gent and told me a lot about Arnold and the bikes he built. He even sent through a photo of the shop as it was in the 50's and 60's. He also told me that when Arnold passed away there was no one to take on the records, decals and general shop paraphernalia, so sadly it all ended up in landfill.

First things first I stripped the frame and it started to give up its secrets.

It was obvious that the bike had had a refurb at some point but it wasn’t obvious when, or if it had been done in stages. The paint looked like a classic 70's job and the decals were the 'official' Elsegood ones so it must have been re-sprayed in the early to mid 70's when they were still available. The paint chips on the forks and rear triangle showed that there was chrome underneath and that it looked like the rear Zeus dropouts had been added to the rear later in the bikes life.

The wheels were very old (60's maybe) Campag Record large flange hubs attached to Mavic MA2's. The rear hub was a 40H as well so the MA2's must have been fairly old too. The mechs were Suntour cyclone and the chainset a Campag Strada 52/42 copy and the Bottom Bracket an old Bayliss Wyley (shagged and with an axle that could be used to knock cows out!)

The brakes also painted a picture of fettling through the ages as the levers were GB super hoods and the front brake was a GB courier +, the rear was a much later Weinmann 730 though. The headset was a ropey old Tange job but the stem was a GB spear point beauty with some really narrow GB drops attached.

When the frame was stripped (with the help of BC for the stubborn bits) the frame was sent off to Neill Shankland at Atlantic Boulevard in Bury. Neill is an awesome bloke and can talk for Britain about old bikes. He reckons that the bike was built in the 50's as a fixed and then fettled in the early 70's to be a road bike, with the addition of the rear centre-pull guide, a new brake bridge and the Zeus drop outs. Before having a horrible re-spray in the late 70's and the other parts added over time.

The decals caused a big problem as no-one had any that were close to the originals, so we resolved to get them made up especially for the frame. They took about two months but they really make the bike and were worth it (although on decal couldn’t be saved unfortunately)

Neill then properly went to town on the frame. The old paint and chrome came off, eventually, and then the new chrome (Rear triangle, front forks and crown) and paint went on, followed by the hand lined lugs. The colours are based on an Ephgrave No1 and I reckon it s a pretty tidy combination.

So with the frame back I had to sort through all the bits I had collected/kept/begged. it was also 'fun' finding out what worked.....Also having the mechanical skill and patience of a honey badger (ok for demo, not great for new paint) I took a big bag of bits down to BC and thus started Hillbilly’s fun/headache.

So the original bits that I wanted to use were the GB stem, the Campag seat post and the hubs....The 40H rear hub quickly ruled them out (despite me not checking this and the front wheel having already been built! second time I’ve e done this, sorry sorry sorry...) so I procured some 36H large flange super records that paired up nicely with some open pros.

The next 'fun' was the drive train; I’d collected all 90's 8 speed Dura ace. (As I wanted it to be a useable classic and not just be hung on a wall) The bike had been an 8 speed but only a 5 speed would fit on it now, so Hillbilly worked his magic with the shifters (DA 2X8) as the spacing was pretty similar. The Bike didn’t have a stop on it though for the front mech so the hairy genius combined a front mech clamp with a down tube cable adjuster to create one!

After a bit more swearing it was done.

I'm properly happy with it and it’s definitely a bike for life, I’ve taken it out on a couple of club runs to shake it down and it’s a great bike to ride, it’s quit ea different riding experience to my other bikes but a brilliant one all the same.

Massive thanks to BC and Neill at Atlantic Boulevard.

Right now an out of character foray into the 90’s with a GT Edge….

Flickr set - (taken before the cables got sorted)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/96979340@N04/sets/72157634071868687/

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I am Alan Elsegood, eldest son of Arnold Elsegood, whom you featured in your post. Fantastic to see our shop in York as it was around 1950: it can't have been later than that because the car you see in the photo, registration no. EUM427 was sold when I was no more than 5 (ie. 1950) because I'd fallen out of the rear door at a racing event/grass-track trial at Elvington Airfield near York. My Dad decided the car had to go!

I'm attaching a photo of my Minster, built specifically for me after I passed my GCE examinations at age 16, and which cost £52 (which would now be around £1,500). I know that becasue it was NOT a gift: I worked in the shop Saturdays and during school holidays and paid for the bike at £1 per week for a full year from my pocket-money and what I earned from my paper-round. You can see the positioning of the "Minster" transfers. The A E ELSEGOOD transfers were a later consideration as the stock of "Minster" transfers was almost exhausted. His shop was close to York Minster, as you probably know, and visible from the windows (of the accommodation above the shop) when we lived there.

Malcolm from York wasn't completely correct in terms of the history he gave to you. The shop in Lord Mayor's Walk was under threat of Compulsory Purchase to enable the development of York Ring Road which, in the event, never happened. The threat had been hanging over the premises for several years which was why my father and mother bought the second shop on Burton Stone Lane in Nov 1958. Neither my brother nor I possessed the 'natural talent' for mechanical skills which my Dad had. He expected to give me a rim, a hub, spokes and nipples, and that I would lace it up into a wheel after one demonstration. Not happening! My skills were developed in Personnel Management and my brother's as a Graphic Designer.

Arnold died in July 2003. His own Minster, which he was riding until the day he was taken into hospital after a fall, went to my eldest son, Carl, who had it stripped, re-enamelled Flam Red, as it always had been) and rebuilt by Ellis Briggs of Shipley, where my Dad had always had his enamelling work done. Carl treasures the Minster.

Mine is as original, including the Brooks B17 saddle, Campag derailleur, Mafac brakes, Weinmann rims etc. Following a judo injury to my knee (at university) and two subsequent operations such that there's not much cartilage left, I don't ride as much as I did, and that means it's harder (at the age of 68) to get really fit so that I could extend myself a bit more. For local rides - to and from the village - I ride a Boardman Comp Hybrid, but it's a poor substitute. It's a harsh ride compared with the Minster, and the gear ratios don't suit me at all. I would resent having to buy a new chainwheel set and block to recreate the gear ratios of the Minster, because the Boardman is a temporary expdient, whereas the Minster is permanent. It was built for me personally: I saw it in construction; the lug-work was done to a design I preferred, and some of it I built (when I was 16) under Arnold's supervision.

I've registered to this blog as a result of the post from Ecobeard, and I'd be happy to post up some more pictures of Arnold at work, riding and acting as Timekeeper at various events. My mother, brother and I were often Dad's support team when he was riding, like the time he tried to recover his 12-hour record at the age of 46 (Yorkshire Century 12-hour Trial: 29 July 1956): he did 217.608 miles despite his bum being covered in boils at the 6-hour stage, and narrowly missed getting his title back.

Arnold was, as is well-known, one of the Founders of the York Cycle Rally and his ashes were distributed at the site of the Lightweight Tent on York Knavesmire, at which he officiated for many years (and where my brother and I helped 'man' our stand displaying Minster frames and the other items Arnold sold.

If there's enough interest in this post, I'll be happy to expand and provide more photos and anecdotes.

OOPS! I can't find a way to add the photos unless I lodge them on Flickr or some other web URL. Any guidance available?

Alan Elsegood

I am Alan Elsegood, eldest son of Arnold Elsegood, whom you featured in your post. Fantastic to see our shop in York as it was around 1950: it can't have been later than that because the car you see in the photo, registration no. EUM427 was sold when I was no more than 5 (ie. 1950) because I'd fallen out of the rear door at a racing event/grass-track trial at Elvington Airfield near York. My Dad decided the car had to go!

I'm attaching a photo of my Minster, built specifically for me after I passed my GCE examinations at age 16, and which cost £52 (which would now be around £1,500). I know that becasue it was NOT a gift: I worked in the shop Saturdays and during school holidays and paid for the bike at £1 per week for a full year from my pocket-money and what I earned from my paper-round. You can see the positioning of the "Minster" transfers. The A E ELSEGOOD transfers were a later consideration as the stock of "Minster" transfers was almost exhausted. His shop was close to York Minster, as you probably know, and visible from the windows (of the accommodation above the shop) when we lived there.

Malcolm from York wasn't completely correct in terms of the history he gave to you. The shop in Lord Mayor's Walk was under threat of Compulsory Purchase to enable the development of York Ring Road which, in the event, never happened. The threat had been hanging over the premises for several years which was why my father and mother bought the second shop on Burton Stone Lane in Nov 1958. Neither my brother nor I possessed the 'natural talent' for mechanical skills which my Dad had. He expected to give me a rim, a hub, spokes and nipples, and that I would lace it up into a wheel after one demonstration. Not happening! My skills were developed in Personnel Management and my brother's as a Graphic Designer.

Arnold died in July 2003. His own Minster, which he was riding until the day he was taken into hospital after a fall, went to my eldest son, Carl, who had it stripped, re-enamelled Flam Red, as it always had been) and rebuilt by Ellis Briggs of Shipley, where my Dad had always had his enamelling work done. Carl treasures the Minster.

Mine is as original, including the Brooks B17 saddle, Campag derailleur, Mafac brakes, Weinmann rims etc. Following a judo injury to my knee (at university) and two subsequent operations such that there's not much cartilage left, I don't ride as much as I did, and that means it's harder (at the age of 68) to get really fit so that I could extend myself a bit more. For local rides - to and from the village - I ride a Boardman Comp Hybrid, but it's a poor substitute. It's a harsh ride compared with the Minster, and the gear ratios don't suit me at all. I would resent having to buy a new chainwheel set and block to recreate the gear ratios of the Minster, because the Boardman is a temporary expdient, whereas the Minster is permanent. It was built for me personally: I saw it in construction; the lug-work was done to a design I preferred, and some of it I built (when I was 16) under Arnold's supervision.

I've registered to this blog as a result of the post from Ecobeard, and I'd be happy to post up some more pictures of Arnold at work, riding and acting as Timekeeper at various events. My mother, brother and I were often Dad's support team when he was riding, like the time he tried to recover his 12-hour record at the age of 46 (Yorkshire Century 12-hour Trial: 29 July 1956): he did 217.608 miles despite his bum being covered in boils at the 6-hour stage, and narrowly missed getting his title back.

Arnold was, as is well-known, one of the Founders of the York Cycle Rally and his ashes were distributed at the site of the Lightweight Tent on York Knavesmire, at which he officiated for many years (and where my brother and I helped 'man' our stand displaying Minster frames and the other items Arnold sold.

If there's enough interest in this post, I'll be happy to expand and provide more photos and anecdotes.

OOPS! I can't find a way to add the photos unless I lodge them on Flickr or some other web URL. Any guidance available?

Alan Elsegood

wow! fantastic story there. welcome to the board. must be pretty awesome for ecobeard to read.

^^ great stuff, a demonstration what the internet was invented for...that and cats

Hi Alan

WOW! This has brought a huge smile to my face!

I've just seen your post, sorry for the tardy reply, I've been ferreting about elsewhere and putting some miles on the Minster.

Dron & Fred are right, this really does show off the power of the internet for good and I for one would love to find out as much as I can about Arnold, his bikes and the shenanigans he obviously got up to. From the stories you've already posted you and your dad seem like you got unto some cracking antics and I’d be happy to hear more about them. This might sound selfish but it really brings my Minster to life, if that makes any sense?

Sorry for putting the wrong info up about the shop in my original post, I searched high and low for information about the man, the bikes and the shop, but I really struggled to find anything more than a few lines on forums and a few sentences in old TT schedules (which makes sense now!)

Great to hear that you still have your Minster and that you’re still riding as much as the knee allows. I hope you think my one has been restored to your family’s approval; it’s certainly a conversation starter!

As for the photos, you can upload thumbnails below using the controls in the message box, or just stick a link in to another site. I can’t wait to see another one of your dad’s bikes.

Cheers!

Ecobeard

What a great thread already! The internet can be handy sometimes. Lovely bike as well, you're a lucky chap.

Cheers, I reckon we need a 'the Internet is wonderful' thread on here, this def another example of t'internet being awesome - http://www.lfgss.com/thread112828-2.html

Great story and a nice bike. I used to live in York and it's a bloody lovely place.

Really delighted that my post managed to find a target. I have accepted Ecobeard's friendship invitation, but (because I haven't yet made 3 posts), I'm still in the nursery and limited as to what I can do.

However, I have prepared some material on how and when my Dad got started in business and in frame-building. I've also got loads of material relating to his racing successes, both prior to starting the business in 1936, and then some of his later races, including a 12-hour I remember him doing at the age of 46 9in 1956), and just missing on taking back his course & club record.

I've got my little brother arriving tomorrow from North Carolina, and staying with us for about a month, so he's a wizard with websites, photographs etc., and I'll enlist his help to post some material I hope all membes of this site will find interesting. [I could sure tell some stories about Wally Hargreaves - who worked for Arnold when I was still in a pram - and Tony Boswell who worked for Arnold later.]

I did try uploading photos in the mesage box using the "insert image" icon, but I must have confused the system, as the post I had spent about an hour putting together vanished from the face of the planet, after which I almost lost the will to live, went off and had a pint of John Smith's - OK, maybe two! - and since then things have been a bit hectic with the morth-inlaw going into hospital.

I am determined to get some great material out there as a tribute to those with the appreciation of a real bicycle.

Alan Elsegood

As regards my last post, the typos are so frequent, I think I must either be getting arthritis in the fingers or I need another pint of John Smith's. I reckon I'll work on the principle that, whatever the problem, the latter suggestion is the solution.

Alan Elsegood

:) definitely have that next pint of Smiths!

Alan, this is starting to sound truly brilliant, looking forward to seeing what you and your brother put together, especially the stories about Wally Hargreaves!

I had my Minster out again this weekend and the more i ride it, the firther i fall in love with it, its one hell of a frame. Thats probably the last time I'll have it out a while due to the weather, so I'll have to make do with looking at it and hopeful finding out more about it and its maker.

Cheers

Rob

Apologies for not maintaining the thread, but I've been in Flanders and France with my brother and both our wives, following our grandfathers (that's my and my brother's grandfathers) around the WW1 battlefields. Both came back, I'm pleased to say. Still got a house full of guests and mother-in-law unwell, so my time has been monopolised. What's more, I'm going away on holiday next week.

Four points to make:

• I'm putting together a record of Arnold's racing career and how he got into cycle manufacture (first the Elite - ie. E for Elsegood - lite for lightweight, then the "Minster" when he moved to the shop in Lord Mayor's Walk), and how the business developed. I've been wanting to do this for my own satisfaction (and my children's and grand-children's information) with material from my Dad's own diaries and notes. I'm dictating it but - for the reasons above - I've got 'behind' and there's still some to do.
  
• After seeing Ecobeard's "Minster" rebuild, and Dad's stock of transfers having gone, I searched online and found a source, which is really great news. So, I bought a set.
  
• I mislaid Ecobeard's email address, which I meant to follow-up, so would appreciate a message to my alternative email box which is alanelsegood@gmail.com, then I can respond properly. I'm open to other contributors using that mailbox too.
  
• I'm very grateful that this site has prompted me to assemble a little tribute to my Dad, basically comprising all his medals, which I've got (boxed), a load of photographs including him and the other founders of The York Cycle Rally, and a specimen frame he made (for display) to show off the lug-work. That frame has an 8.5inch seat tube (22 cms) and is completely proportionate. It (or its twin) was on display in the shop window and on his stand at York Rally. It's in Red Flam - Arnold's favourite colour - and I keep it wrapped in cling film. I'm now determined to put all this material together. My eldest son, Carl, acquired Arnold's own "Minster" when he died, and had it rebuilt and re-enamelled at Ellis Briggs in Shipley where Dad had all his enamelling done.
  I'll possibly be allowed to add some photographs to the next post as I think I've survived the 'quarantine'. Expect more when I get back from holiday.
  

Hi Alan

Thanks for the email and the post.

It's great that your getting all your dads old medals out and you're going to put a tribute together. (That specimen frame sounds really interesting too) The photos of your Minster you sent me are great. It was lovely to see another Minster and I can see the similarities in our frames. It also shows me that Neill at Atlantic boulevard was utterly correct in his guesses about how the paint and chrome should look.

You should get the photos up on here too, especially the ones of your dad racing, they're brilliant. I'd be interested to see Carl's Minster too as it's 'the mans'!

It's good to see he had handlebar mounted cages, so I wasn't far off the mark with mine!

It's funny you bought the transfers as it's Neill from Atlantic Boulevard who's selling them. In order to get them made for my rebuild he had to make a few copies and was resigned to never selling another set!

I've got a photo to send you of another badge that was on my bike, but we were unable to re-create, you might know a bit more about than we could find out.

Enjoy your holiday!

Cheers

Rob

http://www.flickr.com/photos/96979340@N04/sets/72157634071868687/

I've updated the Flickr Photo set with a few photos of the bike after a few tweaks (cables, cages etc) and it on a few rides. I've done about 500 miles on it so far and it's been bloody good fun!

Thankfully the paint chip in the photos has now been repaired, when it happened (on a train on the way back from a cornish cycling holiday, caused by someone with untaped bars and no respect for other peoples property) I was slighty angry.....but now its all part of the bikes story.

I've also added in a few photos that Alan sent me of his dad, his dads Minster and his Minster. I hope you dont mind Alan!

Cheers

Rob

Another Minster, I have recently acquired this frame, I am curious about its past. I believe the frame was made in the 1950’s and is very lightweight for that era. She had been refitted in the 1970’s and I am starting to do a full restoration. I have more photos if required.

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Great frame! Hopefully Allan will come back on here soon and we'll get some more Elsegood details.

Please don't say I missed this on eBay :)

The lugs are very similar to mine, yours has lovely double crown forks and a stamped BB she'll that mine doesn't though. Out of interest does yours have Zeus dropouts.

Do you know if this was re finished at Arnold's shop or by Ellis Briggs?

Actually the lugs are different to the one on my frame. They're very similar to the ones on my Carlton track frame, as is the fork crown. The BB she'll on that is nervex so these might be aswell.

The frame came to me as payment for a complete bike overhaul, the owner has had the bike in his possesion since the 1970's. I am curious about it's past.
I have posted an enquiry on Retrobike, http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=291502 , there are more photo's that may help with tracing the frames origin and the lugs. these are similar to Oscar Egg. I believe that some 1950's Carltons Catalina did use Oscar Egg lugs

I'd email Alan on the email he posted further up the thread to see what he thinks, definetly sounds like they could be Egg lugs as the lugs were sold as sets alongside the tubes.

If it had the old osgear dropouts before it was re-Furbed then you'd def know. Oh and Neil from Atlantic boulevard had sets of Elsegood decals available as he did a run of them when making mine up. He did have a set on eBay but I don't know if they're still up. Lovely chap to, its certainly worth giving him a call to chat about the bike and him possibly doing the restoration, his work is exceptional.

http://www.flickr.com/x/t/0096009/photos/96979340@N04/13436485894/

Minster with guards fitted, apologies for the non drive side shot!

Arnold used a collection of blank lugs, and would cut and file them himself to a variety of optional patterns. The small frame (9" seat tube) that I still have was one he would use as a sample, as with other frames he'd already prepared. That miniature frame was usually on display at York Cycle Rally on our stand, but there were always plenty of frames in the shop window from which to select one's preferred lug design. The lugs for both frame and forks, as I remember, came in orange boxes and were (in the main) plain tube cut-offs. I remember him using a selection of drills, saws and files to achieve the desired design although, at the age of 12-15, I admit I was more intrigued than enthusiastic or keen to imitate. Some of those skills perhaps came from his time with Langsett Cycles in Sheffield (approx. 1935), and might have been further developed in his work as an Armourer during the War (when, amongst other things, he built Bren and Sten guns and other specialist weapons). I can't for the life of me remember the name on those boxes that the lugs came in. The name Bayliss Wiley sticks in my mind, but perhaps that was only headsets and other parts. [Now you get to understand why I didn't follow him into the business!]

Once a customer had made a choice of the lugs he'd prefer, Arnold would drill, cut and file them to the desired shape, but avoiding anything that could be confused with, say, a Hetchins frame (which was characterised by its curly rear stays. Again, if you look at the lugs on my front forks, you will see they have been cut-out in the body of the lug as well as profiled at the brazed joint. I can't remember having seen any similar, except on his own frame. Also, if you look carefully, you will observe that when the frame went to Ellis-Briggs for stove enamelling, the lugs on the forks were not picked-out in white as was specified, whereas you may note they got it right as regards the lugs on the crown and headset.

Strangely enough, the fork lugs on the photo you've supplied (the blue Minster) are similar to those on my frame, but somewhat heavier and finished in chrome. The seat stays on the blue frame appear to wrap around the top tube, whilst on mine they terminate at a weld on the lug.
I also observe that the pump brackets are on the seat tube on the blue frame, which must have been a personal preference, as Arnold didn't like the mount anything there which would obscure the transfers.

At one time, I had a very short wheelbase track bike made specifically for a straight-line sprint. The forks were barely raked at all, so that it was almost impossible to turn the wheel to either side if you were wearing toe-clips, and it was fixed-wheel, so there was no chance of avoiding a contact between your foot and the front wheel if you did turn.
The frame was made for one of the Clifton CC lads for a season in which he wanted to capture the sprint championship, after which it came back to the shop. Perhaps Arnold made it specifically for the purpose and as a 'demo' model, but he gave it to me to ride during the period he was building my Minster to my specification. Interesting, using that machine in town! I came off it several times.

As regards bottle carriers, it was uncommon to fit drilled mounts at the time. You will note that the pump brackets were fitted to the top tube (crossbar) and this would leave room for a bottle carrier on the down-tube, subject to you not having any other clutter on there. If you look at the photo of my Minster, you will observe that I have the two original Campag cables for the derailleur and the twin chainwheel on the down-tube, and these would get in the way of any bracket for a bottle-cage. As the down-tube was the typical mounting for the levers and the cables at that time, my Dad and many others would mount the cage on the seat-tube, above or below the Minster transfer, but this could get in the way of the thighs or the ankles if it was a wide cage. The alternative, and more handy if racing, was to mount the cage on the handlebars.

More later.

Alan Elsegood

Alan, as always you're a fountain of knowledge, I can't wait to see the Clifton CC and York rally photos you've put together. That short wheel base sprint frame sounds fun, you were a fixie skidded hipster even then!! :)

Interestingly enough I think it was mentioned when my frame (blue one) was stripped that it looked like the pump mounts had been moved from the down tube at some point.

I'll do some research on the blank lug brand,or someone on here might know. B&W def did the headset and BB's. Mine still had the B&W BB In it when it came to me.

Cheers

Rob

Re. Boscarn's posts: I suspect you're right about this frame being built fairly early, by reference to the lug-work, in which you can see signs of the development of that area towards more elaboration. I forgot that I'd given some photos to Ecobeard to post on the site, and I'm really delighted to see them up there.

If you look at the lug-work on my frame and Ecobeard's, you'll see the development of a more slender style. In the photo of 'the man himself' looking through the frame of his own machine (on Ecobeard's Flikr set), you can see the same slim style of lug-work. However, you'll notice that he hasn't got any pump brackets on the top-tube on his bike, and he's used screw-on brackets to secure a pump to the seat tube. He cared a lot more about his customers' and "the lads'" bikes than he did about his own. He always had his own frame enamelled in Red Flam, because he was red/green colour-blind, but that was one colour he seemed to be able to identify immediately.

He closed the shop on 31 December 1970, when he was 60 years old, because of the threat of the ring-road forcing a Compulsory Purchase. He built my frame (and everything that went onto it) after my GCE 'O' Level exams, so 1961/2. My earlier frame was also a Minster, of course, but as I was of small build it was only an 19" frame and by that time I'd outgrown it. Incidentally, I had to BUY that bike! It cost me £52, which I paid back at £1 per week from my 'wage' from the paper-round, and my other cycling-related expenses were met from working in the shop (either at Lord Mayor's Walk or the shop my mother ran in Burton Stone Lane) on Saturdays, so that I could go out with him on Sundays, and he could half-wheel me all the way to Whitby and back. Only once did he not push me in that way, and that was when my freewheel failed somewhere up near Middleham (North of Ripon) and he had to change the wheel around to give me fixed wheel operation, and when I started flagging, he'd put a hand on my back and push me that way!

If you can find a frame number, that might help date it. Mine is 15075 and (as stated) dates from 1961/2. I honestly don't know whether he used a sequence of numbers or created them randomly: I suspect the former, knowing he kept a record of every frame he built, but that's not amongst his effects. [I do, however, have a record of the takings and operating costs for the shop from its opening in 1936.]

Certainly the frame is not old enough to have been an "Elite". That was the name he gave to his first frames, that being a pun on E (Elsegood) and Lite (Light), but I don't think that idea lasted long because of the war, when there was no material for such trivia (?) as bicycles except for the armed forces, Post Office and essential services (eg. Police). When he was demobbed and started to get the business back on its feet when my mother had been operating it throughout his absence during the war years, the fact that the shop was immediately behind York Minster was its inspiration.

If you look at the photo for The York Evening Press where he's outside our house and waving his pump, I think that coincided with the 50th Anniversary of York Rally, of which he and Ron Kitching were the two remaining founders, and that would be 1997 (from memory), when he would be 86 coming up 87. He and my mother moved to Hartrigg Oaks Retirement Village in 1998, and took up riding a bright yellow mountain bike, as his eyesight was deteriorating and ANYBODY could see that machine a mile off!

This info. may not help as regards the date of your frame, but it may add a bit of colour.

Alan Elsegood

The seat stays on the blue frame appear to wrap around the top tube, whilst on mine they terminate at a weld on the lug.

The stays on mine don't quite wrap around, they have been filed to points that don't quite meet at the top of the lug, its a lovely detail.

On the blank lugs that Arnold used, could they have been Hadens Blank lugs, they were a popular choice for frame builders who cut their own lugs?

I cant see if they came in orange boxes though :)